2836C's Last Flight

[c170b53]

For those that have not met Justin; I briefly met Justin at the Columbus and I thought to myself, what a great guy. I thought that the club was lucky to have a new gracious member (who had little grey hair if any ) and I believed that the future looked promising if the association could attract more such members. I'm sure others members were thinking the same thing at Colunbus.
Justin, it makes me sick thinking of what you're going through. I've been without since I bent my plane almost two years ago. My machine is now coming back together but it's been a hard process getting used to looking always up. I don't wish this on anyone.
Most of us thought that Miles's airplane would not fly again but Dels miracle work proved to many of us that we had underestimated his capabilities. Having looked at the pictures, I'm thinking there's a significant difference in the damage between your plane and Miles plane but I'd like to wish that Del could prove me wrong once again.
Again hoping for the best outcome.

[juredd1]

Thanks a lot guys. It's means a lot to have a place to come release a little, folks are supportive, and can understand what it means to lose your plane.

My wife made a pie for my Uncle last night so I ran it over there after 9ish last night, he got to move back into the part of his home that still has a roof over it. I left the car running as I meant to stay for 10 minutes but talked for the hour. Just discussed the struggles that laid ahead for both of us. I look forward to finding another airplane but so dread the effort it takes to get a good one found but for him where nothing he owned was insured but his truck. For me it wouldn't look to bright even at my age but for him being 75ish with no job and no insurance money to rebuild what is gone he was being very real about the situation but very positive. He said you can either just set here and do nothing or get up and fix what can be fixed and move on.

Over the previous 4 days I wasn't sure he would get another plane, I know it's early but just couldn't get a clear picture there but he said last night, oh he'd like to get one but had a lot of work to do to prepare for it. He don't want it setting out in the weather so he wants some sort of hanger built before buying again. I surely hope he does. He just talked and talked about the history he had with that plane, from the loan to the end. The plane did what he wanted it to do, it was the plane for his kind of flying (slow and low where he could see the sights) and he trusted it.

For those that have not met Justin; I briefly met Justin at the Columbus and I thought to myself, what a great guy. I thought that the club was lucky to have a new gracious member (who had little grey hair if any ) and I believed that the future looked promising if the association could attract more such members. I'm sure others members were thinking the same thing at Colunbus.
Justin, it makes me sick thinking of what you're going through. I've been without since I bent my plane almost two years ago. My machine is now coming back together but it's been a hard process getting used to looking always up. I don't wish this on anyone.
Most of us thought that Miles's airplane would not fly again but Dels miracle work proved to many of us that we had underestimated his capabilities. Having looked at the pictures, I'm thinking there's a significant difference in the damage between your plane and Miles plane but I'd like to wish that Del could prove me wrong once again.

Jim,

Thank you sir for the kind words. It was an honor and a joy meeting so many of you folks and you all just took me in like I had been a member for life. George made a little fun of me because I didn't know what kind of radio I had in my plane but I informed him I'd know the next time. (BTW....I still have very little grey hair if any ) When I needed help or had questions no one acted as if they were better than me, they just jumped in and helped. They too were once in my shoes. Frank, I still have some of that tail wheel chain I need to get back to ya, thanks again.

If I had the power to do over and in hindsight I would have made the subject of this post "2836C's Is Down, Can Wingnut work another miracle?". That subject might catch his attention of course he may have seen it already and is thinking I do not want another "Lazarus Project".

The insurance adjuster is supposed to arrive Wednesday I'll likely update on the status.

Thanks,
Justin

[cessna170bdriver]

Justin,

Maybe you can ask the adjuster if you can dril off one or both side panels with the N-number before they take the wreckage, and keep it as a memento. One side of my vertical fin had some old unused holes so I had Del replace it. This, along with some other bent and torn parts will be going up on the wall of my hangar.

IMG_1717.JPG

[170C]

Justin, hang onto that tailwheel chain. You may need it for that new (to you) 170. I hope your uncle can get his home back in good shape soon and be able to locate another Champ or whatever he wants. It's tough to lose a plane or anything else you really enjoy, but the most important thing is there weren't any injuries. "Things" can be replaced. Keep checking the many sources for 170's for sale and ask around . You never know when someone has one that isn't listed for sale, but just might be willing to do so. Good luck with your insurance settlement and let us know how it goes.

Frank

[juredd1]

Maybe you can ask the adjuster if you can dril off one or both side panels with the N-number before they take the wreckage, and keep it as a memento. One side of my vertical fin had some old unused holes so I had Del replace it. This, along with some other bent and torn parts will be going up on the wall of my hangar.

Thanks Miles for the idea, I don't recall my N-number being on anything but on both sides of the fuselage but I'll take another look. It would be nice to have something to keep off the old bird. There are plenty of loose pieces but not sure what I can legally keep for myself without asking first.

Justin, hang onto that tailwheel chain. You may need it for that new (to you) 170. I hope your uncle can get his home back in good shape soon and be able to locate another Champ or whatever he wants. It's tough to lose a plane or anything else you really enjoy, but the most important thing is there weren't any injuries. "Things" can be replaced.

Thanks again Frank, after some thinking about it I am not 100% sure where that chain is at. I would imagine I keep it in my toolbox in my uncles hanger and that toolbox was toss a bit and stuff scattered but will likely find several missing things as we get all the debris removed. My uncles His son told me to start looking for a champ for him, that he was going to get one whether he said he wanted one or not. I think he does want one, he just needs to get his house repaired first and then see where the his funds are at that point. It's just still unreal to think about how things are so different in just a few seconds, what took a lifetime for him to acquire was partially wiped out in seconds. His love of flying inspired me as a little child.

Keep checking the many sources for 170's for sale and ask around . You never know when someone has one that isn't listed for sale, but just might be willing to do so. Good luck with your insurance settlement and let us know how it goes.

This is exactly what I am hoping for, that gold nugget that someone decides to sale. However there just a isn't that many 170's registered in Arkansas so anyone knowing of a good one that comes about please by all means tell me. Of course there are good one 170's out there listed, but it just seems like the last time I was looking all the good ones that were close to my price range where gone before I could even get bank approval, but hopefully if the insurance settlements goes well I will be in a better position to purchase this time around.

[juredd1]

Maybe I should post this in a new thread but any advice you could give on this insurance process and what I need to be aware of. I know George and some others gave me some advise. Just if you have been through anything close and have advise please share. I just hate to go in dumb about this and get taken.

When I got the insurance I was asked how much I wanted to insure the plane for. I gave them the amount I paid for the plane. Over the years my premiums have went down a little but I was told that was based on the increased tailwheel experience each year. Do they have some grounds for paying me less than what I ensured it for?

I was asked if I was interested in the plane on the first talk with the adjuster, I said well depends on how much I guess. Is there anything on this plane that would be worth buying it back? Seats, radios, instruments, maybe some of the engine is worth having for parts? The instrument panel looks good to me. No real damage visible to the instruments or the radios but what's behind the panel has not been looked at by me. Not sure what kind of internal damage might occur from such of sudden stop.

Thanks,
Justin

[GAHorn]

Just to explain a bit of humor others may have missed.... Justin's remark about my amusement over his lack of knowledge of what kind of avionics installed in his 170... was amusing to me ... only because of Justin's VOCATION. Go ahead, Justin... tell 'em.

As for advice on how to deal with the adjuster versus the "remains" ... you might do well to visit with Del Lehman over in Mena. Not only with regard to whether or not it might be advantageous for you to keep the airplane-remains for whatever purpose ... but also with regard to what to expect from your adjuster. I'll virtually guarantee Del probably knows the guy and how he does business.

[gfeher]

Justin, I hate to say this, but be careful what you say on this forum about your plans/thoughts about how you will handle your insurance claim or what you will do with any insurance recovery. This is a public forum and I would't be suprised if your adjuster or someone at your insurance company were following this thread. As I said, I hate to think it, but it's possible and probably likely. Having said that though, I hope that others who have had a loss in the past will call or pm you and at least walk you through the process/steps so you know what to expect at each turn. I have not had such a loss, so I'm no help there. Otherwise, I'd do it in an instant. Can anyone give Justin a hand here?

[cessna170bdriver]

...As for advice on how to deal with the adjuster versus the "remains" ... you might do well to visit with Del Lehman over in Mena. Not only with regard to whether or not it might be advantageous for you to keep the airplane-remains for whatever purpose ... but also with regard to what to expect from your adjuster. I'll virtually guarantee Del probably knows the guy and how he does business.

Amen to that. Without going into detail, Del was an invaluable resource to me when I was dealing with the insurance company.

[juredd1]

Take the money and run. Close the chapter and start a new one. Don't burden yourself with parts from this plane that might be damaged or won't sell for as much as you had originally thought.

I get that, I do and that might be the best thing for me. Not concern myself with the past and just look forward. Just wanted to discuss my options.

Just to explain a bit of humor others may have missed.... Justin's remark about my amusement over his lack of knowledge of what kind of avionics installed in his 170... was amusing to me ... only because of Justin's VOCATION. Go ahead, Justin... tell 'em.

George you could have went all day without bringing up this subject. Just because someone works in the IT field doesn't mean he has to know all the fine print on every piece of of hardware he uses. That's my story anyway....

you might do well to visit with Del Lehman over in Mena. Not only with regard to whether or not it might be advantageous for you to keep the airplane-remains for whatever purpose

I might see if I can catch Del just to see if he can get some idea how to judge what might be worth keeping from the plane if the option is available to me.

Justin, I hate to say this, but be careful what you say on this forum about your plans/thoughts about how you will handle your insurance claim or what you will do with any insurance recovery. This is a public forum and I would't be suprised if your adjuster or someone at your insurance company were following this thread. As I said, I hate to think it, but it's possible and probably likely. Having said that though, I hope that others who have had a loss in the past will call or pm you and at least walk you through the process/steps so you know what to expect at each turn. I have not had such a loss, so I'm no help there. Otherwise, I'd do it in an instant. Can anyone give Justin a hand here?

I appreciate the advise and it is well received. I don't fell like I have been mischievous here but I also understand things said are sometimes taken wrong or misunderstood. If they are reading they surely understand any normal person is going to seek advise from people that know on how to deal with their situation. Maybe I just should have done it privately, lesson learned. I have no intention to hide or do anything wrong and all parts that have been recovered not attached to the plane will be handed over to the adjuster.
I am by no means suggesting that you thought I would do otherwise but wanted to be clear about my intentions.

Justin

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Justin,

I've had two insurance claims. On for a prop strike on an airplane I did not have motion coverage. Short story my Cub had the wings removed and in short term storage. Part of that storage I'd run the motor every now and then. On one such motor run the engine started on a hand prop at a higher power setting than I anticipated. Nothing bad but just enough to put the plane on to it's nose. A Cup you see with no wings has a different CG than we are use to. Something I'd not considered.

Any the insurance agreed the plane was not in motion. They agreed it was reasonable to start the motor in storage. And they paid for a engine teardown and inspection and minor repair to the prop. There as no arguing. I simply presented my thoughts on why I should be covered and they agreed.

On the second my plane was damaged by high winds. Bent wing tip, probably a rear center carry through spar. Estimates for repair where a little soft I thought at $1000 under my insured hull value but way higher than the threshold for the insurance to total most aircraft. The adjuster wanted to fix the aircraft and seemed to have latitude with the underwriter as to what to do. I asked what happened when the repair went well over the insured value and he said the insurance would either pay all of it or at some point stop and buy me out paying my full hull value. I of course would be out an airplane while we waited for the repair to take place an either be finished or the insurance pay me exactly what they would write the check for immediately. I decided not to fool with the plane and took the money. The adjuster couldn't believe it really so he did ask me twice. But there was no arguing. The entire transaction was orderly and professional. I was offered the plane for salvage but declined.

I think there is very little reason the underwriter could find not to pay you the full hull value your policy was written for. The value of your plane for salvage is probably not that much. Personally, I'd ask. In the mean time I'd think about what the salvage might contain that you might use AND be reasonably assured you could recover your money if you decided to sell it and at what price that would be.

[juredd1]

Bruce,

Thank you very much for the examples given and information provided. I feel much more confident that I will be well taken care of as this was an incident that was well out of my control and there won't be much question if this plane is fixable or not. I will do my best to just go in with an open mind and be confident these folks are going to do what's right and will do their best to take care of me. I feel I have probably worried way to much about this when I have not cause to at this point.

Justin

[strangebird]

Make sure that you have the log books in order. and your premium has been paid! in full!!

Even though this was a '" not in motion" event, no pun intended, you as a pilot should not have any issues since you were not flying the airplane. Make sure you did not state anything on the application that would screw you, TT times, did you go through a broker or buy it on your own? You may be responsible for protecting the aircraft from further damage, if so, put a tarp on it, read your policy. Read what your responsibilites are and what the insurance company is responsible for, who is gong to retrieve the plane and pay for that? any clean up, storage until settlement if they want to move the plane, rember it is your bird until you get paid and sign it away to the insurance company, so protect it a best you can.

What is going to happen is he will look at the plane and then might not say anything to you and then a settlement letter will come to you, if you like it sign the agreement, or if not you will have a fight, hopefully not, read your policy the insurance company may have some time to settle this, or you may just get paid right away,

Always use a good aviation broker when buying aircraft insurance, most likely you are not in that business, it costs you nothing and the broker works for you not the insurance company. If you have a broker call them and tell them you have a claim, and let them guide you through the process.That is why I use a good broker who knows the game more than you do is helpful.

I am a corporate insurance broker, not in the aircraft business, even though I could easily write my own policies, I use people that do things I do not, even my cars, house, RV and planes I use those that specialize in certain areas who knows the markets and claims side.

Depending on who your carrier is, I do not thnk you will have any issues, you have a stated or agreed hull value, take the money and find a nice bird. Forget the pieces. It will go to salvage and if you really want it you can bid on it, but that bird looks pretty bent, sorry for your loss, remember this is only stuff and there is more stuff out there to had.

Good luck with all this and do not hide anything but at the same time don't offer too much,

[juredd1]

Strangebird,

Thank you for the information you provided and your valuable input. Much appreciated.


Justin

[wingnut]

Apologies for my lack of participation. Just been busy. Miles alerted me when this happened, and I did visit this thread. Everyone had already said everything better than I could.
I did call Justin this morning and had a great visit given the circumstances. Ive not known Justin's claims adjuster long, but we've just gotten a third (since November) repair job in now that he has managed the losses. Great guy. Unlike auto or home claims, I've never once had a negative experience with aviation claims adjusters. There have been a few times I've had to "sell" an idea that I feel is fair to all, but this is rare. I can't imagine any issues with a settlement; this appears very straight forward.