j 3 cub

Dward · Post by **Dward** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 5:41 pm

I remember from my swift days that there was a guy in Alaska who modified his plane so extensively that the feds put him in an exp. catagory (not sure which one). He described it as a liberating experience. Now he could really go to work on the changes he wanted to make. I have heard the feds are easier to deal with in the northern state but I can't imagine waiting for a letter from the "gubermint" every time I wanted to go for a hamberger.

3958v · Post by **3958v** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 1:34 am

Iowa You might want to consider looking for someone in your area who would let you do an owner assisted annual. Then do what he tells you and pay him imediately in cash and you may start to build a relationship which could lead to some one willing to work with you in overseeng your cub project. If you show a interest in maintaing your plane to the highest standards that also helps when looking for a IA to supervise your work. I did considerable work on my 170 under the supervision of my IA and it was a great learning experience so dont give up. Bill K

jrenwick · Post by **jrenwick** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 2:13 am

3958v wrote:Iowa You might want to consider looking for someone in your area who would let you do an owner assisted annual....

This is really good advice for an aircraft owner. I couldn't have said it better!

John

Post by **GAHorn** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 7:38 am

Dward wrote:I remember from my swift days that there was a guy in Alaska who modified his plane so extensively that the feds put him in an exp. catagory (not sure which one). He described it as a liberating experience. Now he could really go to work on the changes he wanted to make. I have heard the feds are easier to deal with in the northern state but I can't imagine waiting for a letter from the "gubermint" every time I wanted to go for a hamberger.

Sometimes we hear anecdotes about someone who did such-and-such and things turned out very rosy, when the entire story wasn't well known. I'ts not a simple matter to take a standard category airplane into the Experimental Category expecting to reap benefits that homebuilders enjoy. Just because a certificated design is removed from the Standard Category does NOT make it eligible for amatuer maintenance programs with non-certificated mechanics. I wouldn't want anyone believing that all they have to do to maintain their airplane is get it off it's Standard Airworthiness Certificate. It's not that simple.
Just because an airplane is on an Experimental Airworthiness Certificate does not mean it can be worked on by it's owner or any other non-certificated person and returned to flight status.

doug8082a · Post by **doug8082a** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 1:34 pm

jrenwick wrote:
3958v wrote:Iowa You might want to consider looking for someone in your area who would let you do an owner assisted annual....
This is really good advice for an aircraft owner. I couldn't have said it better!

John

A very good idea. There was a guy on my field with a 1939 T-craft that he did all the work on himself. He was not an A&P, but did have a very good relationship with the mechanic on the field. The mech. would check in on him from time to time, verify his work, and sign it off. His annuals were usually just a couple hundred $$.

iowa · Post by **iowa** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 2:49 pm

this is all very good advice!
and...it would be workable
if i still lived in the chicago area
and was stationed at clow, airport
where there are several mechanics etc.
BUT, i live in farm country here in iowa.
the nearest A+P is in perry
which is 30 mi away.
the next would be carroll,
who have done my annuals,
but they actually do them in webster city,
which is 80-90 mi from me.
is short, i am pretty isolated out here.
little gc airport doesn't even have and FBO!!
the odds of building a relationship w/the
proper person who would help me
rebuild an authentic cub or L-4
would be pretty remote.
this is my delimma.
on the other hand,
if i build an experimental,
then i do all the work,
and it is inspected one time only.
do i want an authentic plane and a lot of hassle,
or a 'fake' 'wannabee' plane and an easier time of it?
thanks
iowa

Post by **Bruce Fenstermacher** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 5:12 pm

iowa it is hard for some of us to imagine your isolation and many wish we had your trouble. At least for a bit.

You have an airport and no one there has an A&P? They may not make a living using their license but you really must be isolated if no one has an A&P.

iowa · Post by **iowa** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 6:09 pm

yes, that is correct,
no one has an A+P!!
everyone of us, (9)
must take our planes
somewhere else for maintanence or annuals.
we've talked about having one guy come and
do them all,
but this for one reason or another has not worked out.
iowa

iowa · Post by **iowa** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 2:39 pm

hello
what you guys think of this j3?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Piper-J3-Cub-with-L ... RCH:US:101

thanks
iowa

Post by **Bruce Fenstermacher** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 3:48 pm

If you want a J3 project and it sells for $9000 it could be a good project but you can't tell nor would I buy it from pictures.

The Lycoming engine is not very desirable and has almost 0 value in my opinion.

Because it's coming with a Lycoming I would assume it is a J3L-65. the significance being it was certified under TC A-698 rather that A-691 which the Continental J3 version was certified under. Under TC A-689 no other engine other than a Lycoming is eligible for installation.

All Cubs where identical regardless of the engine so it is generally excepted that a Continental can be installed and thousands have been, legally speaking you can install a Continental with out a bases of approval. The same goes for the Franklin powered version of the Je the J3F-65 which is certified under TC A-692.

BTW you want a Continental because the Lycoming and Franklin engines didn't produce the same power as a Continental and parts for either of these engines are getting very slim.

The paperwork problems might not stop with the engine. The TC for the Continental powered J3 is 21 pages full of approved stuff. the Lycoming version is 7 pages. MOST people including the FAA don't understand this so when approvals for a J3 are sought by manufacturers they seldom include all the TCs the Cub is certified under legally leaving them orphaned.

You could figure on about $8000 for an engine, $15000 to repair and recover everything else plus the purchase price of at the time $9000 and shipping to Iowa from New York will bring you over $32000. In my neck of the woods that can buy you a pretty nice flying Cub. Not an award winner mind you.

Besides it's not an L-4.

doug8082a · Post by **doug8082a** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:19 pm

N9149A wrote: The Lycoming engine is not very desirable and has almost 0 value in my opinion.

The fellow with the '39 T-craft I mentioned previously had the Lycoming as well (BL-65). One of the main reasons he did his own work (besides saving money) was that few, if any, mechanics wanted to deal with the Lyc due to parts availability.

There are plenty of Continental powered cub projects out there. I'd keep looking...

iowa · Post by **iowa** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:21 pm

thanks for your advice!!!
i'll count on you helping me find a nice one,
especially an L-4
thanks again
iowa

iowa · Post by **iowa** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 2:11 pm

after a little calculating,
i find that i could buy the
parts to build a complete
L-4 (less engine) for
about 25k.
since it is experimental
i have to have it inspected
just before flying it
and can do all the mechanicals
myself.
am still deliberating.
dave

Post by **Bruce Fenstermacher** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 2:25 pm

Sounds about right. And you can make little changes to suit you that you wouldn't want to make to an original.

You'll also need between $6000 and $11000 for the engine depending on whether what you use. I'd recommend the 0-200 because it and parts are readily available and it has plenty of power for the aircraft. A freshly rebuilt certified 0-200 can be every bit of $11k but as you are installing it in an experimental you can rebuilt that yourself for less as well.

While there will be a market for your finished aircraft after all it will be a Cub, it will never be worth the $50k a pristine overhauled L-4 is fetching these days.

iowa · Post by **iowa** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 9:59 am

hi bruce!
these fresh OH L-4's
your talking about
are very hard to come by!!
dave