Minimum IFR Equipment

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

George it is not just hand held GPS that has a problem with some com frequencies, its ALL GPS. The Apollo GX55 in your email story is a panel mount. My Garmin 155 has a problem with one frequency as well. Testing this is part of the procedure for IFR certification.

[DaveF]

Bruce,

The most cost-effective way to get your basic VHF nav capability would be to sell the MK12D and install the KNS-80, RNAV approved or not. Use the extra money to buy a ControlVision ATC or Garmin 396/496 handheld GPS.

A smaller and slicker setup would be to sell both the MK-12D and the KNS-80 and get a KN-53 with GS. That would give you the functions you need in two nice small packages and you'd still be money ahead. And you'd have rack space to add another com if you want.

Or you could sell the MK12D and KNS80 and buy a GS-capable navcom, like a MK12D with GS. Then you'd have dual coms and VOR/LOC/GS, and it might still be a wash financially. To do that with a KX155 would cost more than what you could get for the -12 and -80.

I would definitely have a GS. George is right about human nature, but I always cancel flights that involve extensive IMC and low approaches. At least, it's worked like that for 20 years. So while that means I probably won't ever need the GS, I like to have it for times I'm vectored to final on an ILS runway in MVFR or dark conditions, or for whatever reason I want some vertical guidance. Also, because I don't fly any other airplanes, I'll be doing all my instrument proficiency and logbook currency in the 170. It would be nice to have something other than a VOR approach to practice on.

I know you didn't ask this, but if money were no object, I'd sell everything you have and install a single Garmin SL-30 navcom. It's as good a radio as could ever be designed. Unfortunately it costs about $5500 with the indicator, but I used to have one and will never really be happy with any other radio. The audio is perfection, it has the brilliantly conceived "monitor" com function, the GS/LOC splitter is built in, the nav is quiet and stable, and there's a whole slew of front panel programmable settings, like sidetone level. It makes me weep just to think about that jewel. If you ever find a good deal on one, grab it.

But for all this talk about VHF nav, what we really want is GPS. One box will do it all, from enroute RNAV to approaches, and those approaches are perfect for the flying we do in 170s. GPS is the future, with lots of new approaches being approved all the time. Trouble is, the GPSs are so expensive that we install obsolete VHF equipment to be "legal" while we navigate with handhelds!

Good luck. I'm still not sure what I'm going to do...

Dave

[hilltop170]

Back to the original question, option 3.
I got my instrument rating and 150+ hours actual IFR with this set-up between 1978 and 1983;
(Click on picture to enlarge)

IMG_1251_1_1_1.JPG

[DaveF]

I got my instrument rating and 150+ hours actual IFR with this set-up between 1978 and 1983;

Pretty deluxe! Here's what I used back in the '80s. The KX-170B and KI-214 were good but the KX-145 was worthless, so I had essentially a single navcom with GS, an occasionally functional ADF, and an audio panel I built from a kit (that worked flawlessly). That's why I think Bruce would do ok to go with "option 3 minus": one com, one nav with GS, and his handheld GPS.

CherokeePanel.JPG

As for option 3a, "Replace the MK-12 D with a King KX-125", instead of a KX-125, why not just another KY97? It would be less money and smaller than a KX-125.

Dave

[GAHorn]

All any "real" pilot needs:

[4-Shipp]

George, i had typed in a previous post that "This has gotten away to long and more than most of you bargained for...". I was referring to that post and not the thread . I want to again thank everyone for their input and their time. I'm talking to a few avionics shops I know well and will have a game plan by the end of the month. We'll keep you posted!

[W.J.Langholz]

All any "real" pilot needs:

George
This looks more like a "Cub" than a 170........

Bruce

Post some pics when you decide what to do and get it installed.

[jrenwick]

George,
My PC was slow to bring up that beautiful picture of my other instrument panel, and while I was waiting, I was sure it was going to be a picture of a cat and a duck.

Folks who are into cat & duck IFR might be interested in this optimization:

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

All any "real" pilot needs:

Ahhhhhh there ya go. A proper long IFR scan for that panel is to scan left to right then continue looking right out the open door at the road your following then repeat. A quick scan would start at the oil pressure gauge on the right then proceed out the open door to the right.

To be honest the quick scan gives you all the infor you need. Oil pressure then look outside for altitude and if the lower door isn't starting to fly your going fast enough.

[GAHorn]

I couldn't find an Airknocker panel with a venturi-driven T&B, which was what I was hoping for, but the cat and duck is much more reliable. Thanks for the chuckle, John!