GARMIN SALES MANAGER KILLED IN AIRPLANE ACCIDENT

[voorheesh]

I want to make an update on an accident in California that I commented about in a previous post (details previous to George's Mena accident list). I had heard that the aircraft had a dry tank but I recently learned that the fuel may have drained out due to damage from the accident. Also the pilot of that Bonanza did an excellent job of controlling his aircraft following an engine failure, at night, in fog with zero visibility. His decision to establish a stabilized glide and allow the airplane to crash under control saved 2 lives. The rear seat passenger reportedly died of an internal brain injury. This makes me think it would be wise for us to consider having our passengers in rear seats assume a "brace" position if we expect a crash landing. This involves having them bend forward and place their head between their knees protecting it by interlocking their hands above. In that position, impact will be absorbed by stronger parts of the body. Another thing I picked up on this accident involves manipulation of a fuel selector. Pilots take this for granted because it seems so simple. Well at night when the engine suddenly goes quiet, it may not be so simple and we may not actually move it where we intend to. Maybe we should practice this while sitting in the aircraft unpowered and develop a "feel" for the exact location of that little lever. It could make a diference. George's list really tells a story. You would think we would have learned by now.

[GAHorn]

Related not only to THIS thread about flying in the Rich Mtn area in poor weather, but also related to the recent carb-ice thread,...here's the admission I made last spring about the trip to Pettit Jean.... (Don't try this at home):
http://www.cessna170.org/forums/viewtop ... ean#p48700

[Brad Brady]

Another thing I picked up on this accident involves manipulation of a fuel selector. Pilots take this for granted because it seems so simple. Well at night when the engine suddenly goes quiet, it may not be so simple and we may not actually move it where we intend to. Maybe we should practice this while sitting in the aircraft unpowered and develop a "feel" for the exact location of that little lever. It could make a diference. George's list really tells a story. You would think we would have learned by now.

This is Sooo true, when working on my multi-commercial licence...I knew that the instructor was going to screw with me...I watched his hand go to the fuel selector and after that the left engine quit....I reached down and shut off the fuel to the left engine......incorrectly (I still have no idea what he did... it had nothing to do with the fuel selector) but I had a real engine out.....he thought that he would let it go and see what I did......when going through my engine out check list ....found that I had turned the fuel off...much to my amazement......but that's why there are checks.

[cessna170bdriver]

...In the winter, the opposite happens: We get cold moist air stratus/tule fog over the valley and warmer air at the coast. ...

The first February I lived in California (1997), I woke up early one morining, looked out at the CAVU skies over Tehachapi and decided to make good on an invitation to attend a meeting of the Central Valley Aviation Association up in Fresno. I thought, "It's only 117 nm up to Fresno, and the vis here MUST be 100nm or so, so why bother the FSS on such a beautiful day?" Well, I got the answer to that question about a minute after takeoff. Tehachapi is at the southern end of the Sierra Nevada Mts near the SE corner of the Central Valley at 4000' and the cloud tops in the valley were no more than a hundred or two below that. I climbed up to 8500' and started checking AWOSes up the valley. All told the same story: no better than 900-1 all the way to Fresno. Short flight, but a good lesson learned. The following video is not mine, but is a good illustration of what I saw soon after takeoff that morning.

http://www.leftpattern.net/videos/CentralValley.wmv

Since then, I have stood at my hangar and watched the fog blow in from the valley and have seen the visibility go from unlimited to zero in 15 minutes.

Miles

[wingnut]

The NTSB usually has a preliminary report posted within one week of an accident. I have been checking weekly on this one, and now after almost 3 months they have finally posted it.
One thing in the report I noticed, which is unusual for a preliminary report, is they say "crashed during cruise flight". This to me, seems to imply that they have determined that there was not an abrupt, or remarkable, change in heading or altitude prior to impact.
What do you guys think?
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_i ... 3821&key=1

[GAHorn]

I am a little puzzled that this accident happened, unless he placed a bit much trust in the terrain-avoidance capabilities of his company's product.

I once used my GPS-196 in the car to drive down a major highway between my house and SAT, which sits ON that highway (US-281)... but the Garmin, despite good satellite reception, showed me 80 MILES WEST of my actual position, indicating I was on hwy 16 between Llano and Fredricksburg. The unit had originally displayed my correct position, but then unexplicably shifted my position and realigned it to the position much farther west. I've never seen it since. (I have updated it's operating software a couple of times since that event.)

[jrenwick]

I am a little puzzled that this accident happened, unless he placed a bit much trust in the terrain-avoidance capabilities of his company's product.

I once used my GPS-196 in the car to drive down a major highway between my house and SAT, which sits ON that highway (US-281)... but the Garmin, despite good satellite reception, showed me 80 MILES WEST of my actual position, indicating I was on hwy 16 between Llano and Fredricksburg. The unit had originally displayed my correct position, but then unexplicably shifted my position and realigned it to the position much farther west. I've never seen it since. (I have updated it's operating software a couple of times since that event.)

George,

You wouldn't have had this problem if you hadn't hit enter on the "I agree" page where you promise not to use this device for navigation!

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

No flight plan at all was filed so he hadn't intended to be IFR (as in needing a plan) is my thinking. With the ceiling at 500 ft and 10 miles visibility 7 miles from the crash perhaps he thought he could scoot along at 300 ft VFR but ran into lower visibility (1/2 mile reported at scene). Don't know the terrain there so I have no idea if scooting along at 300 ft should be considered. Specially in an airplane.

I might do it in a helicopter (OK I have done It) but have turned down many flights with that low of a ceiling even in a helicopter that I can slow down and hover.

George et al. I've spent the last 10 years or more flying pretty low (less than 500 ft) using all sorts of moving map displays from handhelds to panel mounts in all sorts of weather. Three things I can tell you about GPS operation.

First on a CAVU day they work flawlessly and you never push a wrong button. They are very easy to read and there is more info than you could ever use.

Second they are pretty darn accurate when they are working. I had no idea how many cell phone towers I was flying around till I got a hold of a 496 with terrain and obstacles. When it says there is a tower there is.

And last but the most important thing I've learned. When your down on the deck and the weather is, well, getting interesting, and the pucker factor is getting pretty high. That is when you can't hit the right button and you forget exactly how all those features work you've been counting on. You can stare as hard as you want at the screen but you wont' be able to see what you need because it's not being displayed or the screen is so cluttered with info you can't see what you need. Of course that's when you lose satellite reception and navigation is intermittent.

Pretty obvious this guy bit off more than he could chew. He flew his GPS stack all the way into the ground.

[wingnut]

If he was familiar with the terrain in this area, he may have thought he would, or was, flying through Foran Gap, which he probably could have done because there would have been no mountain to the south after coming through the gap. But looking at where the crash site is, and knowing the general direction he was traveling from, he flew through Eagleton gap, about 7 miles west of Foran Gap. When he exited the gap, he had Rich Mountain to contend with in a hurry, whether he was in tune with the GPS info or not

[Brad Brady]

George et al. I've spent the last 10 years or more flying pretty low (less than 500 ft) using all sorts of moving map displays from handhelds to panel mounts in all sorts of weather. Three things I can tell you about GPS operation.
First on a CAVU day they work flawlessly and you never push a wrong button. They are very easy to read and there is more info than you could ever use.
Second they are pretty darn accurate when they are working. I had no idea how many cell phone towers I was flying around till I got a hold of a 496 with terrain and obstacles. When it says there is a tower there is.
Pretty obvious this guy bit off more than he could chew. He flew his GPS stack all the way into the ground.

Bruce , Pretty darn accurate is an understatement....The SAT LOCK M-3 I drive in the Thrush is amazing, when the light bar shows three lights to the right or left, you are one row off center line, (its like driving an ILS ALL day at three feet at 130 Knots)......the worst part is that if you give attention to the screen in the cockpit, it looks worse than it is.....it shows a huge gap between passes....although coverage is there. Sooooo, when finishing up a job, and wanting to give this guy the best coverage.....never look at the screen in the cockpit to line up your next pass...you will eventually find your self in the crop.....Because you have your head in the cockpit I know....I think that's where this guy was....Brad

[GAHorn]

I've flown light-bars for mapping (laser-camera) and, while the bar will keep you within a couple feet of a straight line (such as a row of crop, or a pass over terrain for flood control mapping), it's pretty useless for general navigation. Like measuring a sectional with a micrometer.

[Brad Brady]

I've flown light-bars for mapping (laser-camera) and, while the bar will keep you within a couple feet of a straight line (such as a row of crop, or a pass over terrain for flood control mapping), it's pretty useless for general navigation. Like measuring a sectional with a micrometer.

Right George,
But what I was saying is if you have your head in the cockpit, your not going to see that tree just before you hit it....where you might if you are flying the airplane.... not the GPS.....Just my thoughts......Brad

[c170b53]

I guess a mistake in the GPS terrain database could do you in just as well.

[Brad Brady]

I guess a mistake in the GPS terrain database could do you in just as well.

Probably....but it gives you terrain not trees, towers, ect..... .....Brad

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Probably....but it gives you terrain not trees, towers, ect..... .....Brad

Yes it does give you towers.