'48 170 value

[Kurt Aichele]

Looking for advice on how much to insure our '48 170 for. Insurance is due and we just recovered the wings. How do I determine how much to cover the aircraft for? Is there any certain criteria to follow?

[hilltop170]

I really don't know how to answer your question other than to say ask your insurance agent what the premium would be at different hull values and insure it for the highest hull value that he will agree to and you are willing to pay for. Do not under any circumstances insure it for less than you have in it or less than it is worth.

If your agent won't play ball with you about the different hull value insurance rates, call Avemco, they will tell you.

[Brad Brady]

Insurance is a funny thing.....What are you ready to lose?.....That's what you insure your aircraft for. The best way I have found to find a value on an aircraft, is to find as many 48's as you can, add their numbers, and divide by the number of aircraft that you found. If it isn't enough..... then use the number you are willing to lose. Any insurance company will work with a "classic" owner......It's just what you want to pay ....Brad

[GAHorn]

Aircraft insurance is generally "replacement value" insurance, and YOUR airplane should be insured for what YOU value it. Sometimes the underwriter or agent will say that "A Cessna 170 is not worth that much!".... to which you should be prepared to document for them WHY you believe your airplane is worth what you state.

Example: I purchased my airplane for $43K and insured it for $55K. The underwriter only wished to insure it for $40K (in 1999.) I disagreed and told him why. (It was an extensive restoration over 16 years to "new" condition, and very few Cessna 170B's are in "new" condition.) He wanted documentation to support my claim.

I provided him with copies of 337's which documented the extensive restoration and total replacement of all wireing, all hyd/fuel/air/vacuum lines, both metal and flexible, all cables, all pulleys, all windows, 80% of all sheet metal, new radios, new interior which was to certified standards, freshly-overhauled engine/prop/accy's, new exhaust, baffles and airbox, rebuilt wings, tail, and fuselage, new paint, and photographs and copies of the Oshkosh and Sun'N'Fun awards. I also asked him to locate ANY other Cessna 170 which he could find that had so much restoration that was not valued at more than my request. (I also reminded him that the base price for the current model comparable to the 170.....the 172.... is priced at $160K in similar condition.)

He admitted he could not find another 170 like mine worth less than what I wanted to insure mine for, and offered to insure it for up to $70K, (if I'd pay the appropriate premium.) I insured it for the amount I desired. Three years later he suggested, and I accepted his offer, to increase it's insured value.

YOU must decide how much you believe you will lose if your aircraft is destroyed. And keep this in mind...... when any damage adds up to about 70% of the value for which you insure it..... the underwriter will condemn it, take possession of it, and write you check.... and you have lost your pride and joy. Now...try to find another like it.

So: Insure it for what you think it will cost you to replace it and make the sadness go away.

[Brad Brady]

George said every thing I did and more ....I value my Aircraft at 110% of it's worth.....Because, I can at, $615.00 per year, and I believe it's worth that much......low time and everything. Of course with the value of aircraft coming down....I may be nearer 125% Maybe I should be looking at lowering the value of my aircraft I'll bet it won't save me a dime ....Brad

[GAHorn]

Also, when purchasing insurance, don't forget the LIABILITY side of the equation. Liability is the cheapest part of the package, yet that is where you are MOST VULNERABLE.

Imagine this scenario: You are performing a run-up and lean over to get an exact, non-parallax view of your gauges and don't notice your airplane has begun to roll forward. Your prop chops into the wing of the $14M corporate jet in front of you. The repairs will cost $3.2M and you were insured for .... $1M. ($5M would have only cost you another $60/year but you didn't think about the fact you operate around so much expensive machinery that belongs to someone else. You didn't consider that YOU would be the liable party in an accident.)

The corporate attorney's will file an insurance claim for their loss and their underwriter goes after YOU, your house, your car, your vacation home, and your kids college-savings in a subrogation move, and you still come up short and have a lien placed against your home and all future earnings until the deficiency is paid. Admittedly a worse-case scenario...but very possible.

Liability is cheap insurance. I'm always surprised and annoyed at those who fly around with NO liability insurance of any kind on their operations ....like I once did.

Ask yourself: Does your state require proof of insurance before re-licensing your auto or issuing a drivers license? Isn't it amazing that there is no federal mandate on aircraft? Does this make you feel a little bit naked?

(Imagine.... no effective enforcement of annual inspections. No visible proof that the aircraft running next to you was properly inspected in the last decade. And no requirement for liability insurance either.)

[Kurt Aichele]

Thank you to everbody for your advice and recommendations. Will be calling the insurance company this week with an increase in value and liability. Thanks again.

[Brad Brady]

Also, when purchasing insurance, don't forget the LIABILITY side of the equation. Liability is the cheapest part of the package, yet that is where you are MOST VULNERABLE.
Liability is cheap insurance. I'm always surprised and annoyed at those who fly around with NO liability insurance of any kind on their operations ....like I once did.

Yea I agree with you George.....Working with an "OLD" (in both terms) APIA, I once asked how he was insured? He said that he stayed broke, and his bags packed.....one with the cash he would have paid the insurance companies I guess another way to look at liability .....Brad