Original Interior Colors

[n1936c]

I have a 1954 B which will be getting an interior. Where can I find really sharp photos and brochures of original interior colors.

[GAHorn]

Do you truly have a 1954 Year-Model..?? or do you have a 1955 with a 1954 registration date... ? The SERIAL NO determines....not what FAA registered it as.

Also, your aircraft may have a datatag which indicates with which colors your airplane left the factory. The IPC describes the codes which make that identification.

[n2582d]

This is one area I think our association could really benefit those of us trying to restore our 170s to "original". If you do a search under "original interior" or "original fabric" you'll find a slew of guys, over the years, asking what the original colors and/or pattern was for X year's model. If one looks at the IPC for just the B model 170 upper seat cover here is what it shows:

Seat Cover.jpg

So each year, from 1952 through 1956, Cessna changed the fabric and/or pattern on the seat covers. Similar part number breakdowns can be found for the seat bottoms and the rear seat back and bottom. The straight 170 and the 170A also have unique p/n's for the seat covers. Wouldn't it be great if the Assocation had a swatch for every year that could be loaned out (with a $100 deposit) to get an accurate match? In addition, a current fabric number from some place like LeBaron Bonney or Original Auto Interiors would really help. (Aircraft grade fabric with burn certs., while not required for CAR3 aircraft like the C-170, would be even better. See FAR 23.853(a)). (My pet-peeve working as a pilot is that the FAA goes to great lengths to insure that the aircraft interior materials are flame retardant and then the company uniform pants are made of polyester. :?Talk about hot pants! ) In the Maintenance Library I'd like to see pictures for each year of what the seat covers looked like--ideally labeled with the s/n of the plane the photo corresponds to. How about each of us with UNMISTAKEABLY ORIGINAL fabric sending a swatch to the Association along with the serial number of the plane it came from? This idea should probably be expanded to include carpet and vinyl trim. If others are also interested in seeing something like this I'd be glad to try and coordinate this. Suggestions?

P.S. N1936C, To answer your original question, Bruce might be able to help. Here's what he said in 2006:

We have a member in northern NJ that has an original interior in a '54 that might be photographed and measured.

And I bet if you join the 170 Association Bruce and Kathy Rhymes could give you some assistance. Here's a picture of their award-winning '54 170B.

1109800733.jpg

[GAHorn]

I just spent a half-hour typing some really good verbiage on this subject....to have it all disappear when my laptop crashed. I suspect bluEldr or Bruce or Ol' Gar or Massicot or sumbody out there has hacked my 'puter in a sorry attempt to save all you guys from me....

Anyway.... the gist of it was: My own airplane was restored by a fellow (Bill Goebel) who miraculously found swatches of original fabrics beneath seat frames, behind/beneath door posts/sills, etc etc. and it only made the task of locating representative samples of original fabrics in quantities sufficient for processing into a new interior a frustrating excersize. My interior is/was seen by many as a superior example of originality...but after years of ownership I can attest to the many deviations which become apparent to me. Steve Jacobsen's interior is one of the best examples I've ever seen...as is Rusty Morris' late B-model...and Bruce Rhyme's.... yet even those, while wonderfully "representative".... are not truly "original" despite their appearance to a casual observer. It's a discussion no one wishes to challenge an owner about. (I am thinking of a 170B I once saw back East whose owner was angrily-adamant about the originality of his all-over-solid-red, shag-carpeted airplane.)

Cessna used commonaly available, inexpensive materials from General Motors and Ford and surplus WW-II stocks to complete these aircraft. (The carpet materials are straight out of Model-A Fords, and those restoration suppliers are the best contacts for that item.) When Bill tried to duplicate my airplanes original fabrics....it became a problem due to the mills unwillingness to produce small quantities. ("What?...you want only 1,000 square yards?")

Even paint chips can be frustrating, and those are some of the easiest to duplicate with modern computerized mixing-equipment. But what good does it do to have the correct shade of paint if you don't have it made of original lacquer instead of the polyurethane everyone uses these days? (And who'd ever imagine that "Silver French Grey" ...is actually blue? And that the sub-floors were NEVER yellow poliamide-epoxy?) And if it's next to anything other than original trooper-tan wool with golden-threaded insert fibers....

(Kinda hard to believe this thread-post is made by an "originality nut'....heh?)

Anyways, I agree that such an effort should be made to collect such samples for posterity. (Less sure that anyone will ever go to the actual expense/trouble to authentically duplicate an interior.)

We will need samples of:
Interior and exterior paint, including fairings, gear legs, and surrounds (they were different than the accent paint stripes.)
Seat covers.
Headliners.
Bag comp't surrounds.
Carpets.
Sun visors.
Assist handles.
SEAT BELTS (and obsolete buckles)
Avionics.
Microphones and headsets.
A place to store all this. (and a caretaker)
A budget to transport it to conventions and return.

PS: Cessna cannot supply a single example of any of those interior panels/fabrics.

(Standing by dressed in Nomex for incoming...)

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

I agree that on one hand the association did what it could with volunteers over the years. Unfortunately it would seem much documentation of what an original looked like was not kept. There are many reasons I think. For one remember when cameras used film, that had to be developed, that cost $$$$$. Remember when COLOR film was a big deal.

And then those that started the Association remembered what they looked like and with the oldest examples only 22 years old there were plenty of original examples around. Why take pictures and document it.

Now here we are 62 years after the first 170 rolled of the line and documentation is hard to find. That is why I went to take pictures of that '48 sold at auction a year or so ago. I wanted to see and document it as much as I could. Thought I took a lot of pictures but a look at them know and wonder why I didn't take 4 times as many.

This is another reason I started taking pictures of interior markings and decals. Those details are mostly gone. But every now and then you see good examples. But it is a lot of work.

Remember not to long ago a member was looking to find out what that orange decal on his battery box said. Most of us had never seen it. Then a sample of what if might be was offered but whether it was original I don't think has been determined. Funny thing is since that first post there have been several pictures of engine compartments with orange decals on the battery box.

I know, because I saw it once, the association has a judging book. Can't remember exactly what's in it. Mile's have you seen it lately. That should be digitized and added to as we find stuff to add.

[GAHorn]

One of the best opportunities to find a readable orange battery box decal I figured would be Rusty Morris' airplane over at Hicks field in FTW. Unfortunately...it's merely an orange sticker. Wording, if any existed, is long gone.

[n1936c]

Thanks for the quick reply guys. The serial number is 26081. I am assuming it is 54 but 55 is ok also. I think that the idea of documenting these beautiful planes is extremely important. I don't know if any of you dab in Corvettes at all. Every screw, nut, finish, type of lacquer is archived and continually updated. And even with that someone always shows up with some creative factory twist that never appears again. I love the idea of having a restored aircraft that looks like it just came off the assembly line.
I will look for tags or shards of material under the seats and doorpanels when we start taking it apart.
Any recomendations for interior work. Do I hear a shudder if I mention a closely supervised Airtex. I found a 54 brochure on flickr, but it's a watercolor rendering.
How can I attach a picture.

[counsellj]

I have access to a 59' C-172, that is 98% original with the exception of a GPS and Transponder and come carpet mods.. It even still has the Air Hound radio. I know the -170 production ceased in 56, but let me know if there is anything from this airplane you want me to capture photos of.

No, there isn't a sticker on the battery box. That was the first thing I checked.

Jughead

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

How can I attach a picture.

You can spend $45 and join The International Cessna 170 Association and get that privilege as well as others here and support the organization that brings you this forum and a place to archive stuff or you can use the URL tag at the top of the posting window to embed a photo that is stored at a site on the web with no security.

(If you've joined TIC170A already {thanks} you've got to send a message to the webmaster asking to have your privileges upgraded)

[cessna170bdriver]

I found these on an old backup area of my computer. They aren't great, but they're part of what the judges got at my convention in 2004. Click on the images to get higer resolution. George, If you don't already have these for the MX library, I'll send you the whole folder that Cleo sent me back then.

J1954_170B_1.jpg

J1954_170B_2.jpg

J1955_170B_1.jpg

[GAHorn]

And here's the '53 sales brochure:
http://www.cessna170.org/forums/viewtop ... ure#p70590

[n2582d]

These seats from a '53 C-180 have that asymmetrical design along the top as in George's picture. The seat cover p/n on these is NOT the same as the 1953 C-170B seat cover p/n though.

watermarked_079b3bf1ed2a1c639117f143c298e2cd.jpg

watermarked_61a2063801ddac2695111ce0a1ac3ccf.jpg

[Tim Harter]

My 1954 170B has the original red interior in it. If anyone want parts of the fabric let me know and i will cut it up and send it to you. I would like to know where to get a new match of the interior paint. I think its trooper tan.
Tim Harter
618-581-6093

[hilltop170]

.............. I would like to know where to get a new match of the interior paint. I think its trooper tan.........

Tim-
Take a sample of about 4 square inches that is painted with the color you want to match to your closest NAPA Auto Parts store that sells auto paint, not all of them do. They have a paint color scanner that can exactly match the color. Try to take a sample that has not faded. They can mix the color into whatever type of paint you want, at least of the types they sell.

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Tim-
Take a sample of about 4 square inches that is painted with the color you want to match to your closest NAPA Auto Parts store that sells auto paint, not all of them do. They have a paint color scanner that can exactly match the color. Try to take a sample that has not faded. They can mix the color into whatever type of paint you want, at least of the types they sell.

And then PLEASE post the type of paint and it's paint code mix and your aircraft serial number and the Cessna paint code and name here.

And anyone else who's done this post the info. We've had plenty of people paint their airplanes matching original colors. There is no reason we can't collect this info.