Garmin G5 STC'd for Certified Aircraft

[nippaero]

DEM,
I guess it was too good to be true! I was really hoping for full navigation functionality. I will have to see if I can look up that webinar. Knowing the FAA, it does not surprise me what you are saying.


Ryan,
I was thinking about putting it right up front and center in the hole above the yoke. I have an electric turn coordinator there now. My electric AI has been acting up and sometimes goes offline. It also has a huge power supply on the firewall that I would like to get rid of. New AI's are not cheap and that makes the G5 more attractive to me.

The thing is, is that the G5 does not flush mount. I was thinking about cutting it into the panel overlay. Then it would almost be flush with the overlay. I think that would look ok. I do have some reservation about cutting up my original panel overlay though so I have been going back and fourth.

You can see the AI power supply in the upper left of this picture.

[bagarre]

If your overlay is pristine, I wouldn't cut it up for a G5.
There are plenty of cut and cracked ones out there to be had. You could repair one of those and leave yours for a museum someday.

I too am planning on a G5 to replace the AI in 95D unless something better comes on the market in the next two years.

I would be happy if the FAA could stay at least 10 years behind the industry vs the arcane 50 years they are now

[nippaero]

I'm still going to pull the trigger on one. I will let you know how it goes.

[Ryan Smith]

That power supply is for a Sperry F-3?

[nippaero]

Not sure Ryan. I will look at it closer tomorrow when I am at the hanger.

[bagarre]

Has anyone looked at the Sandia Quattro 340? They just lowered the price.

Their brochure states "TSO’d Airspeed, Attitude, Altitude and Slip" but further down it looks like those TSOs are pending final approval.

Once they get final approval, wouldn't this single instrument be able to replace all 4 of those instruments in our aircraft?

[brianm]

Spruce has a TSO authorization letter for the Quattro: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pdf/11-12817a.pdf

Is the Quattro allowed to replace all four intruments? If so that would be a big benefit over the G5 which, if I understand correctly, requires retaining the existing airspeed indicator, altimeter, and one of either the attitude indicator or turn coordinator.

[brianm]

Answering my own question, I found this on the FlyHusky.com forums:

The Sandia Quattro is a certified replacement for 4 primary functions. Altimeter, Airspeed, Attitude, Slip (and soon VSI) without a GPS antenna necessary.

The Garmin G5 is an STC'd replacement for AI only and serialized to the airframe by a permission letter from Garmin. Any other function it depicts are stictly for reference and cannot replace the original gauge. It also requires a TSO'd GPS antenna ($$)

I'm planning my path to ADS-B compliance. As part of that I figure I might as well clean up my panel. It is currently completely full, and my AI is down at my left knee. The Quattro would let me put everything up where I can actually see it, add a CDI, and have a hole left over for the future. Eliminating two mechanical gyros and a venturi would also be a nice bonus.

[Metal Master]

Has anyone looked at the Sandia Quattro 340? They just lowered the price.

Their brochure states "TSO’d Airspeed, Attitude, Altitude and Slip" but further down it looks like those TSOs are pending final approval.

Once they get final approval, wouldn't this single instrument be able to replace all 4 of those instruments in our aircraft?

Please note that the Sandia Quattro 340 is for a STANDBY use only. That requires that all of your primary instrument be retained.
The following is directly off of Aircraft Spruces web site.
The SAI 340 Quattro is Four-In-One standby instrument that gives you precision Airspeed, Attitude, Altitude and Slip indications,
The G5 is certified as a Primary Attitude indicator. So is the Dynon AVIONICS EFIS-D10A.
The TSO for the Sandia Quattro 340 is as a Standby instrument.

[Metal Master]

Since I Installed the TCM IO-360 and after about 25 hours my Attitude gyro tumbled. Where the gyro used to run on vacuum from the venturi. The Engine STC allows the installation of a vacuum pump which I installed. The gyro apparently did not like the change as it soon rolled over and died. After checking operation with a Airborne vacuum test set and finding the vacuum system was working properly. I faced having to have the gyro overhauled to the tune of about $500. I only fly the aircraft VFR and it does not have room in the panel for a DG without designing a whole new panel.

At about the same time the preceding occurred Garmin came out with the STC’d version of the G5 for certified aircraft. I read all I could find about the instrument and after finding that the instrument has both a heading indicator with heading bug, altimeter, airspeed strip with V speed indices, slip skid ball turn rate indicator, and altimeter strip with altitude preselect and kollsman window setting. And it has four hour Battery backup. Even though it is a bummer that the instrument is only primary for attitude the added capability was to me a good thing. I went to the Bremerton AOPA fly in where I talked to Garmin about the instrument and discussed the installation. I ran into Steve Ells there and we were both at the booth to discuss the same thing. Steve there to compare the Certified Dynon’s EFIS-D10A and G5. I have been looking for an article by him. Having had experience with the Dynon installed in our experimental T-33’s I was favoring the G5. To be fair the Dynon just was not up to the roll rate of the T-33. So it really came down to price for me and the fewer buttons on the G5. I have been reading problems some have been having with the G5 however I had ordered it before those concerns were revealed.

My friend Steve had ordered a G5 for his 1956 172 TD just a couple of weeks before I ordered mine. He received his in October. I received mine the Friday before Christmas. Steve offered to sell me his electric gyro he was replacing at a fair price. However I have had many customers who have had issues with the gyro he was offering and still wanted the additional benefits of the and features the G5 provides. Steve and I are both A&P’s and IA’s so he and I both did the installation ourselves. Steve had issues with getting the initial set up done and could not access the V speed setting for the airspeed strip. Several phone calls to Garmin did not resolve the problem until the certified instrument group through in the towel and referred him to the experimental Garmin Group who quickly resolved his issue as being that he needed to set the instrument to Stand Alone in the setup pages. Something that is not mentioned anywhere in the installation manual. This last bit of information saved me massive headaches getting the instrument set up. Steve had his instrument wired to his Garmin GNS 530. I having no certified GPS installed and had to install a Garmin G35 antenna on the top of the airplane to have a GPS source. I had a surplus GA 35 GPS antenna left over from a customer 430 WAAS upgrade. Note: The G5 does not require a WAAS antenna. Table 3-3 of the install manual outlines Supported Garmin Antennas. The GA35 PN# 013-00235-0X GPS antenna is not WAAS and is working fine.

I still have to do the weight & balance paperwork and get the pitot – static test done before I can fly. I will report back after that is accomplished. Today is the last day of my Christmas Break and I have to return to work tomorrow January 3rd 2017. The install required a lot more work than I initially anticipated. In that the instrument panel and overlay has issues with the clearance of the G5. Having to do with the furthest left shock mount of the floating panel interferes with the G5 being able to sit flush against the panel. The G5 is required to be hard mounted not in a shock panel something that is not in the brochure but is on the install manual. It has been cold working in the hangar but the install is done.
Previously posted on Cessna Pilots Fssociation Forum

--------------------
Jim

[brianm]

Please note that the Sandia Quattro 340 is for a STANDBY use only. That requires that all of your primary instrument be retained.
The following is directly off of Aircraft Spruces web site.
The SAI 340 Quattro is Four-In-One standby instrument that gives you precision Airspeed, Attitude, Altitude and Slip indications,
The G5 is certified as a Primary Attitude indicator. So is the Dynon AVIONICS EFIS-D10A.
The TSO for the Sandia Quattro 340 is as a Standby instrument.

On the other hand, the FAQ on SAI's own website (http://sandia.aero/product/sai-340-quattro/) says it can replace a vacuum instrument per AC91-75 and PC-ACE-23-08.

[bagarre]

Hi David,
My name is Barry and I will help you on that question. We do market the SAI340 as a primary unit. When we started the process the FAA had not issued the FAA Policy indicating you could use a like the SAI340 as a Primary indicator. We are actively searching out customers to inform them of this great opportunity to switch out the Horizon Indicator and possible vacuum pump all under a minor Log Book entry.

I have attached our copy of the TSO and the FAA Policy memo, just in case you do not have. What are you flying ?

With Best Regards,
Barry LeBlanc
SANDIA Aerospace

It can replace the horizon and it does conform to the listed TSOs (which Garmin does not).


TSO-C2d C2d Airspeed Instruments Type B
TSO-C3e C3e Turn and Slip Instruments
TSO-C4c C4c Bank and Pitch Instruments
TSO-C10b C10b Aircraft Altimeter, Pressure Actuated, Sensitive Type
TSO-C113 C113 Airborne Multipurpose Electronic Displays
TSO-C201 C201 Attitude and Heading Reference Systems (AHRS) (A5 HX T7)
DO-347 Certification Test Guidance for Small and Medium Sized Rechargeable Lithium Batteries and Battery Systems
DO-178C, Software Considerations in Airborne Systems and Equipment Certification
DO-160, Environmental Conditions and Test Procedures for Airborne Equipment

[Metal Master]

Hi David,
My name is Barry and I will help you on that question. We do market the SAI340 as a primary unit. When we started the process the FAA had not issued the FAA Policy indicating you could use a like the SAI340 as a Primary indicator. We are actively searching out customers to inform them of this great opportunity to switch out the Horizon Indicator and possible vacuum pump all under a minor Log Book entry.

I have attached our copy of the TSO and the FAA Policy memo, just in case you do not have. What are you flying ?

With Best Regards,
Barry LeBlanc
SANDIA Aerospace

This is a Good Thing,
Jim

[GAHorn]

I'm wondering if the confusion doesn't stem from the definitions of "primary", "secondary", and the requirement for a second attitude source for certificated aircraft. I don't think "primary" deletes the requirement for a secondary.

[nippaero]

I like that G5 a lot. It's expensive but it packs so many nice goodies into the existing instrument hole. I wonder if it would be able to fit into the later B model panel with just the overlay modified.

Add a EI CGR-30 and that would be the ultimate combo in my opinion.

That is exactly what I am doing. I've had my CGR-30 on order for about a month. They told me it would ship out this week. I couldn't pass up the rebates EI have going on. Once I get my motor back on the plane I plan on ordering G5.


Jim,

Thanks for posting your experience. I saw in the manual that is had to be hard mounted. Do you have any pictures of what you were talking about regarding the interference with the furthest left shock mount?