Internet Pricing Rules?

[lowNslow]

BTW, Premium's web site is STILL advertising the same prices as back in December.

Miles

Miles, I have had this problem with Aircraft Spruce as well. When I questioned them on it they refered me to there latest paper catalog. It seems lots of companies are quick to get up online catalogs, but slow to keep them updated. Having said that I still feel Spruce is a good company to work with.

My feeling is that if I am ordering thru the online catalog, the online price should apply.

[cessna170bdriver]

My feeling is that if I am ordering thru the online catalog, the online price should apply.

My sentiments exactly, Karl. I guess time will tell how enforcable that concept is going to be in my case.

Miles

[cessna170bdriver]

The saga continues:

I received credit on my card accounts and Premium reimbursed the disputed amounts to the credit card companies, so I thought the case was closed. That was until about a week ago when I received a statement from Premium for the disputed amount (from an invoice # that I never received) that is now "1-30 DAYS PAST DUE", and a hand-written note stating "In Collections". I contacted one of my involved banks, and they say since they have been reimbursed, they no longer have a dog in the fight.

Today I filed a complaint with the Arkansas Attorney General, so hopefully they will be more helpful than the Arkansas BBB, which was zilch.

Miles

[auxtank]

Miles,

I'm sorry your have had so much trouble with Premium. I bought two Titan cylinders from them about eighteen months ago and the transaction went smoothly. They even went to the trouble of taking the cylinders to the Post Office to mail them––UPS shipments to Alaska must go by air and the price can be twice that of USPS.

That said, I think you have handled the situation the right way.

It seems to me that because you have "received credit on [your] card accounts and Premium reimbursed the disputed amounts to the credit card companies" Premium has, by their actions, admitted that the charges were not valid.

I also think that contacting the AG's office is a good move.

For what it's worth, if I were in your situation, I would make sure I had a file of the complete record of my contacts with the credit card companies asking them to intervene on my behalf and copies of the credit card invoices showing Premiums charges and subsequent credits to me for the overcharges. I would use the file to straighten out any damages to my credit rating that might arise from my other actions, or more properly inactions.

I would then write a letter to Premium DEAMANDING that they cease and desist trying to collect for charges that they, by their actions, have clearly and unambiguously admitted are not valid. Further, I would tell them that I intended to hold them fully responsible for any monetary damages caused by a reduction in my credit rating that might occur as a result of their collections efforts regarding the disputed amount. Lastly, I would tell them that I also intended to hold them responsible for any costs incurred––such as hiring an attorney––to repair any damages to my credit rating that might occur as a result of their attempts to collect any amount that they had already––by their actions in reimbursing the involved credit card companies––admitted were not valid.

I would send this letter in such a way that delivery is confirmed by a signature and add the signed delivery confirmation to the file.

Should Premium continue to send me bills, I would ignore them. If they employed a collection agency, I would send them a copy of the letter to Premium demanding that they cease billing for disputed charges that have been resolved. I would threaten to involve them (the collection agency) in any future litigation for damages resulting to my credit rating. If the collection agency continued to send me bills, I would ignore them.

I would use the file to correct any damages to my credit rating should they occur as a result of nonpayment.

The above describes how I would handle the situation if I were in a similar circumstance and the AG’s office was unwilling or unable to settle the dispute for me. It is not intended to be legal advice.

Best of Luck,
Gordon Sandy
N4002V

[squaretail]

Miles,
I also am sending in a complaint to the Attoney General office. I have had the same problem with them and I have talked to alot of people that have had the same also. Those guys need to be shut down.Word of mouth from pilot's can make a big change in sales. I think I lost about seven pounds in the last six months dealing with those bafoon's. AHHH!!

[GAHorn]

And, although it's a mutual-admiration society, don't forget to make a well-mannered, accurate complaint to the BBB. They don't like it when one of their own begins to drag the whole group down.

[cessna170bdriver]

And, although it's a mutual-admiration society, don't forget to make a well-mannered, accurate complaint to the BBB. They don't like it when one of their own begins to drag the whole group down.

Today I filed a complaint with the Arkansas Attorney General, so hopefully they will be more helpful than the Arkansas BBB, which was zilch.

I'm surprised never got a response from the formal complaint I filed with the Arkansas BBB on Feb. 8. BTW, Premium is not a member, and has an UNfavorable rating with them due to past complaints.

Miles

[cessna170bdriver]

Miles,
I also am sending in a complaint to the Attoney General office. I have had the same problem with them and I have talked to alot of people that have had the same also. Those guys need to be shut down.Word of mouth from pilot's can make a big change in sales. I think I lost about seven pounds in the last six months dealing with those bafoon's. AHHH!!

Late last week I received a letter from a collection agency in California on behalf of Premium demanding payment of the original disputed amount plus one-third by June 14, 2006 or be sued. Today I called the Arkansas Attorney General's Office to check on the status of my complaint and they told me that they did not receive my complaint. . When I told them that I had an email receipt, they said they normally did not send such receipts, and that I should have received a card receipt in the mail. Their solution to the problem was that I should re-submit the complaint and "check back in a few days". I'm not at all sure what is going on there, but I will resend the complaint to the AR AG vie web and certified mail or FedEX.

Squaretail, what has been your experience with the Arkansas AG so far?

The letter from the collection agency has some fine print at the bottom giving me 30 days to submit a dispute as to the validity of the debt, yet they threatened legal action within 15 days of the letter. BTW, the letter was sent regular mail (not registered or return receipt) so I'm wondering if it is just a scare tactic to get me to pay. I would think if they were serious about legal action they would have registered it.

Weight loss may be the best that comes of all this...

Miles

[GAHorn]

Collection "Agencies" (CA) (not an actual gov't agency, but actually just a private firm) typically get paid a portion of any fees they collect. You don't pay thru them?... they don't get paid. In some cases, an original "creditor" will sell troublesome accounts for pennies on the dollar to CA's. CA's can care less whether or not you actually owe the money. They get enough people who pay something that they make money on their 37-cent stamp. If the CA can't collect anything...they'll discount the account and sell it off to still another CA. And the beat goes on.....

It's important to know how a "credit report" works, in such cases.
Your credit report is a record of payments. It's not a record of non-payments. If a creditor says you owe them money, but have not paid, ...and IF they report it to the credit-reporting agency (usually EquiFax, TRW, etc.... not the same as the CA), then you have to dispute the debt with the reporting agency to relieve your report of negative value. The "creditor" then has to prove to the reporting agency that the debt is valid. (In this case, your letter to the reporting agency detailing the INvalidity of the debt should remove the item from your report.) But actually telling the CA that you don't owe the money will not relieve you of future threats. They'll simply let the file die...or not...and sometimes will actually "sell" your account to yet another CA...who'll in turn hope to harass you into sending some sort of payment. The beat goes on....) Unfortunately, in this case, Premium may have quickly sold off the acct to the CA who now considers themselves the "creditor". It may get convoluted quickly. (It'd be a lot more convenient to get it stopped now, if possible.)
Sometimes a CA will offer to "settle" for a drastically reduced amount, especially on an old, disputed debt. If the unsuspecting actually makes such a payment (presumeably to get rid of the calls/letters) then the credit report will actually be damaged...not helped, by the payment. This is because the report will then indicate that the debt was "valid" (or you wouldn't have paid anything) but that you took forever to pay and you didn't pay the full amount owed! To top off the insult, some CA's will then send you a tax form at the end of the year which indicates your "debt" was forgiven, and now you owe the IRS taxes on the "forgiven" amount of the debt! (They in the meantime, took a tax deduction on money you never owed.)
I discovered some of this thru a divorce years ago, when my ex, with a pocket full of my credit cards, applied for new cards based upon her "credit" history of payments using my cards while we were married. Since we were not yet divorced, her name was still attached to my credit file. When the divorce was final several months later, she abandoned the accounts, and here came credit card invoices for charges on cards I knew nothing about, for unknown purchases made after the separation. I refused to pay them, and told creditors to collect their money from the person whose signature was on the charges. (Since she had no job living with her boyfriend, they wanted to go after whoever they thought had ability to pay. They didn't care that they were charges I never authorized on accounts I never owned. The accts were opened while the marriage was still valid, therefore....)
Their response was that they'd ruin my credit if I didn't pay, and the accts were passed from CA to CA thru the years. My lawyer had me refer their calls to him, and he'd tell them to produce evidence of "original indebtedness"...which never implicated me at all, of course. After a few years they all finally gave up. My credit report never shows any of this, despite all their threats, because I never paid them anything. If I'd paid something, then I'd have been shafted. (My attorney told me of a client who made the mistake of paying off his ex wifes cards to stop harrassing calls which were upsetting his new wife. He not only had derogatory late-pay records placed in his credit report, he also got to pay IRS taxes on forgiven debts.)
I'm not a lawyer, so this isn't legal advice. (And the law has changed since last year when this congress changed bankruptcy law and made it harder for common folk to deal with such problems. Don't know how valid my past experience is in the present environment.)
I'd recommend you send the AG, the CA, and Premium certified letters (return reciept) detailing the problem and demanding Premium respond directly to you. The credit reporting agencies (3 of them) must give you a free report and must include a copy of your letter in your report if you submit it to them. (I suspect Premium is claiming the debt as valid since you paid a "portion" of their invoice, and they are claiming the rest as "outstanding". Even if they've only made an error because they have lousy service and lousy bookkeeping,... it causes YOU the trouble of correcting their errors!)
Let this be a warning to anyone to stay away from them. Let 'em go out of business.

[cessna170bdriver]

"Collection agency" is my term, and I have no doubt that is what they are, but the letter reads more like they are a law firm (the subject reads: Premium Aircraft Parts, LLC. Vs. Bowen, Miles), and refer to Premium as their "client". Their request is that I make payment to them (the CA) in an amount exactly on-third higher that Premium's last invoice. I figure that is their cut for collecting for Premium.

My approach is that I paid the original price of the parts, then paid the difference for Premium's inflated prices (albeit without my immediate knowledge). I then disputed the additional charges, and Premium made a reimbursement of the disputed amounts. Case SHOULD be closed. I commented in my letter to the Arkansas AG that I consider Premium's efforts to re-collect on that reimbursement tantamout to fraud.

Very frustrating.

Miles

[cessna170bdriver]

Today I received an email from a 170 owner (not a member as far as I can tell) from outside the US who is also having issues with Premium Aircraft Parts. I'm posting his email and my response without any identifying information until I hear from him that it is OK to post. Any comments?

Dear Friend: I writing you from ********* regarding a shared problem that I feel you have with PREMIUM AIRCRAFT PARTS LLC (sorry for my English).

I take note about your problems with that people searching in INTERNET antecedents and “environmental” information for this company. As you, I’m a proud owner of one CESSNA 170.

My case is the following: I purchased two BENDIX MAGNETOS for my C 170 on February 28th 2006, and I paid for that with my Credit Card. After four months waiting for, I don’t have any news regarding my MAGS. But this is not the most important problem, because there is a much concerning one: nobody at PREMIUM AIRCRAFT PARTS LLC answer my e-mail neither response my calls. I sent almost 40 e-mails to Mr. Chris Baker (VP Sales of PREMIUM) without any news.

My question is, dear Sir, What can I do with this people? I live in ******** (so, I cannot go to Arkansas to ask about my shipment), and I just paid more than U$S1.000 for these MAGS (In fact, I made business with that people in the past, with a few reasonable problems, but not very important ones).

Could you suggest me any possible path to contact with Arkansas business authorities in order to ask what will the better way to solve my very concerning problem? As you imagine, Fly planes is very expensive in ******* and any efforts to purchase any supplies for my Cessna is a true sacrifice for my pockets and my salary, and is very annoying to suspect that I had been fraud for that company.

Thanks for listen me and I’ll very appreciate if you can take any moment to write me and suggest any way to move foward.

Best regards

********

My response:

********,

I am very sorry to hear that you are also having problems with Premium. My case is still ongoing, so I won't comment specifically on it until it has been resolved. Let me make a few suggestions:

1. Keep good records of all of your attempted contacts with Premium. These may be valuable if there is ever an investigation. When you send an email, send a carbon copy (cc.) to yourself. Many FAX machines print confirmations of successful transmissions, so keep these also. If you attempt contact by phone, keep your billing records.

2. Contact the bank that issued your credit card. Tell them what you've told me, and they may be able to refund your money and go after Premium for theirs.

3. In the US, each state's Attorney General is the chief law enforcement officer, and one of their jobs is to investigate consumer complaints. Contact the Arkansas Attorney General and submit a complaint. That seems to be my best solution at the moment. Go to http://www.ag.state.ar.us/citserv/home.htm , and either download the complaint form and mail it in, or submit an email form. I'm not sure, but since this is an international transaction, the US Attorney General's office may get involved. I'll ask around.

4. If you still need magnetos, try http://www.chiefaircraft.com . I have always had good dealings with Chief. Being from outside the US, call them on the phone and ask if there are any problems with exporting parts.

5. If you are not already a member of The International Cessna 170 Association, go to http://www.cessna170.org and join. (You can tell them I sent you.) Dues are only US $45 per year. We already have at least one other member from ******** and several others around *******. Even if you decide not to join, follow the forums for maintenance information and parts sources.

Good luck with resolving your problem.

Miles

[cessna170bdriver]

Okay.....should have used the SEARCH engine first! I'll try Prremier Aviation

Just make certain it's "Premier" you are contacting and not the much-dis-cussed "Premium" Aviation in Ft. Smith, AR.
http://cessna170.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.p ... ht=premium

George,

That scrapes open an old wound but the fact that Premium should be avoided needs to be brought up from time to time. Here it is almost 2 years after my run in with them and they are STILL advertising those same bogus prices they sucked me in with. Case in point: the through-bolt set for the C-145/O-300, part # EQ7061 is advertised on their website at $666.02, the same price they were advertising in November 2005. That is the price I paid by credit card when I place my online order. They invoiced me for $847.48, and charged the difference to my credit card without my authorization. They did this on most items I ordered to the tune of almost $700 above their advertised prices, in total. I complained to them, the Arkansas Attorney General, and the Better Business Bureau to no avial.

After I got my credit card companies to credit me the differences, Premium reimbursed them, then sold their "bad debt" to a "collection agency" here in California who added a 33% premium to it and came after me directly. I've endured dozens of threatening phone calls from this "agency", and several threats to sue. Each time I tell them to bring it on, and they back off for a while. They haven't tried to contact me since this past spring, so I'm hoping it's finally over.

There was another case where a 170 owner from overseas had paid Premium for a set of mags. He didn't receive them for several months, and Premium quit answering his queries. I don't know what the resolution was on that one.

Miles

[GAHorn]

Make certain you send your version of the story to each credit agency (TRW, Experian, etc.) in order to avoid any credit "hits" with them. Copy Premium in on a letter of response to the collection agency, and let Premium know they will be named in your counter-suit unless they issue a letter to you remarking the error. Of course, Premium took a tax deduction on what they are calling a "bad debt" despite the fact they also rec'd renumeration from the collection agency for the account. That may explain their reluctance to correct the record. Perhaps your notice to the IRS that Premium may be fraudulently making bad-debt claims on their 1040 may get you some satisfaction.)