This one seems to be just for rotorcraft with external loads. I tried to find another one more germain to flying C170s for fun, but I couldn't....
John
John Renwick
Minneapolis, MN
Former owner, '55 C-170B, N4401B
'42 J-3 Cub, N62088
'50 Swift GC-1B, N2431B, Oshkosh 2009 Outstanding Swift Award, 2016 Best Continuously Maintained Swift
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention. An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
Is it true when asked to show your pilot certificate and medical that you should hold on to them while the FAA inspector looks at them, otherwise they can be deemed "surrendered"? Or will stating,"You may look at them but I'm not surrendering them" do the same thing? I was told if you surrender your documents the inspector can keep them.
Richard Pulley
2014-2016 TIC170A Past President
1951 170A, N1715D, s/n 20158, O-300D
2023 Best Original 170A at Sault Ste. Marie
Owned from 1973 to 1984.
Bought again in 2006 after 22 years.
It's not for sale!
I don't think so. My comment regarding "display" of certificates was based upon a training course I once took many years ago as a reserve police officer. As I pretended to make a traffic stop, the pretend-subject refused to hand me his driver's license and only held it up to the window (which was closed...he refusing to exit the vehicle.) The excersize was intended to demonstrate various methods of coaxing a drunk out of the vehicle. By "displaying" a valid driver's license, the subject met the law in that regard. It was not necessary to actually hand the license to the officer. (Of course, by acting in such a manner, the officer will most likely become even more determined to find a reason to make an arrest. I don't promote such behavior. The official will likely consider it rude.)
As a matter of courtesy, you would most likely actually hand the documents to the inspector. He will know he has no authority to retain them (and in fact will weaken any case he might feel he has if he acts outside of the law and his written guidelines.) When the ramp check is over, he must return all your documents to you....UNLESS...they are expired or invalid. He is authorized to retain any certificates already expired which should have already been surrendered....such as a temporary registration that has expired, or your pilot's certificate that has been superceded by one issued more recently. (If you've obtained a new rating and did not surrender your superceded certificate, for example. I know of one experience where a pilot obtained a new B-737 rating and did not want his chief pilot to know this. So before he entered training for the new rating, he notified the FAA that he'd "lost" his certificate and applied for a replacement. Then when he obtained the new rating he surrended the replacement. This allowed him to continue to display the older certificate that did not reflect the new rating. He later was rummaging thru his wallet during a ramp check and the inspector noticed he had two pilot's certificates, so the inspector retained the one which had been superceded. No penalty was invoked by the inspector,....he just lost possession of the older certificate.)
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention. An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
Then there is the old (urban?) legend of the pilot who walks out to his Cessna cabin twin and finds said condition tags on the props. An FAA inspector had noticed the symetric, but fresshly repainted evidence of prop strikes on all 6 blades. Things that make you say "hmmm..."
Ramp checks are not authorized by the code of federal regulations (CFR). Title 49 U.S.C. Section 44709 is a federal law passed by the congress and signed by the president that authorizes/requires the administrator of the FAA to re-examine at any time and any place the holder of a "certificate" to ensure that the holder meets the requirements necessary to hold that certificate. In the case of a ramp check, an FAA inspector is considered to be, in effect, the administrator. Elsewhere in Title 49, you will find that the entire purpose of regulation of aviation enabled by the law is to ensure safety. To accomplish this, DOT/FAA sets standards and issues certificates to airplanes, pilots, mechanics, air carriers, etc. etc. after these entities have demonstrated compliance with the safety requirements set forth in CFR which are "administrative" in nature. Certificates indicate that the holder meets a requisite level of safety and congress enacted 44709 as one means of ensuring that this level of safety would be maintained thereafter.
FAA functions include surveillance that is supposed to sample various aviation entities and activities with the intent to keep aviation honest. This process is not supposed to intimidate or harass aviators and as the above commenters point out it is usually a brief and painless event. If an FAA inspector discovers non compliance, he/she is sworn to deal with it and depending on the seriousness it can be handled with on the spot correction/counselling or other means up to enforcement action. Enforcement action is generally used only in cases where the FAA can not obtain prompt voluntary compliance and if required, is subject to a formal safety analysis and a formal legal process. The majority of minor enforcement cases involve administrative action ie warning letter/corrective action. Punitive legal action is used in serious cases involving intentional violations and/or cases where violations could have resulted in catestrophic consequences. Revocation of certificates is imposed in cases where the holder has totally failed to meet the minimum requirements or qualifications and revoked parties can usually reapply after a time period.
FAA inspectors like any other group include a wide variety of personalities and characters and some will undoubtedly not conform to these ideals. There are undoubtedly cases of ramp checks and enforcement cases gone bad. But we should not judge the process by the exceptions.
Generally speaking, aviation is a responsible and mostly self regulating pursuit which is why the regulations and enforcement are a present but not overbearing force. GA pilots should consider the regulations as the minimum level of safety and endeavor to follow procedures and practices that will provide a significantly larger margin of safety. If we follow that advice, we have very little to fear in a ramp check or any other encounter we may have with the FAA.
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