The International Cessna^® 170 Association

I think there are two separate issues here, that might deserve different approaches. One is to have photo albums on the web site, and that can be members-only (should be, IMHO), with a per-member disk quota.

The other issue is how to include a photo with a forum posting. The method we have now has two problems: 1) it takes some technical know-how and access to a photo repository somewhere, and 2) photos aren't owned by the TIC170A web site, and they sometimes disappear from the postings that referenced them.

Is it possible to change the forum software to permit a photo that's part of a posting to be uploaded directly to the TIC170A web server? And do it in a way that would make it easier for forum users to put photos in their postings? This facility should not be limited to members only. In the unlikely event that someone abuses the privilege, the moderator or webmaster can simply delete the postings, as they would do with anything offensive that someone placed here.

Best Regards,

John

There are other issues as well that can develop from such a plan. What if someone posts a photo they acqured elsewhere (on the web or otherwise) and reposted it thinking they were doing a simple service or interesting informational message)... and the photo turned out to be copyrighted and no permission issued? Will TIC170A be included as a defendant in the suit? Or will TIC170A be the only entity so named and be entirely at risk for the damages? Is the assn and all it's assets at risk? Do we buy insurance? Do we vett any photos? Lot's of discussion/considerations to be examined. Its just not always as simple as it may first appear.
I'm not saying there aren't solutions available....only that they need to be taken under consideration and advisement, and someone will have to pay the legal/insurance fees to figure it out. Who is going to do/approve that?

Youtube has been going through a lot of this. They have removed an awful lot of uploaded content at various owners' requests. Unless someone is being really predatory, it should be as simple as honoring a request to remove a posting from the site. And as moderator, I'll bet you or others can spot things that are likely to be proprietary or copyright, and ask the poster where they got it. We have the same exposure today, and I haven't seen anything yet that I'd worry about.

Best Regards,

John

If it isn't being used for profit does copyright still apply? I don't really know, but I thought if it is on display in public you can't be sued for copying it if you aren't profiting from it.

Copyrights are copyrights whether for fun or profit. Avweb uses a "promissory" method. I'm not saying we can't do this. I'm just saying we can't do this without thinking it thru and getting it done right.

Just been reading thru this thread and had a few ideas. At one point I attempted to host a site (C170.com) with such a gallery but the software to run it was over my head so I let the site go. Now that I have learned a few things we might try again.

I have plenty of space on my web site (dtlinn.com) to host some galleries. If I run low on space at some point there is always Googles Picasa that is now hosting image galleries for free and it is 250mg of space. The ultimate goal would be to have it where members can upload their own pics but for now I will volunteer my space for members to send me pics (email to dtlinn "at" gmail.com) and info and I can post them in a gallery. N#, serial #, year model, owners name and location can be posted in the captions. Ill post them by year model.

Anything to help show off our cool flying machines.

jrenwick wrote:Youtube has been going through a lot of this. They have removed an awful lot of uploaded content at various owners' requests. Unless someone is being really predatory, it should be as simple as honoring a request to remove a posting from the site. And as moderator, I'll bet you or others can spot things that are likely to be proprietary or copyright, and ask the poster where they got it. We have the same exposure today, and I haven't seen anything yet that I'd worry about.

Best Regards,

John

Agreed. Almost all of these cases are preceded by request to remove the offending copyrighted material. I would seriously doubt anyone would go thru the legal hassles (and fees) to prosecute a non-profit with minimal assets.

I just don't think it can be done.

You guys are worse than the United States Exploratory Committee On The Possibility of Forming Committees.

Every major community portal and discussion forum software these days can be easily integrated with photo gallery software. Many of the open source products like PhpBB2 (this forum) and Coppermine (a popular photo gallery project) are already set up to do so, the user id's and permissions are easily bridged, the work is 90% done.

PhpBB3 (in beta) will allow attachments to forum posts, making posting relevant images even easier. Currently they're working on smoothing out the upgrade path from ver 2 to ver 3, but it should be significantly better than what you're running here now.

Coppermine Photo Gallery(free and open source) can be moderated just like the forums can. Photos can be uploaded, and not appear until approved by the moderator. George can sleep better at night knowing he can continue to maintain control over even this new aspect of the website. Disk quotas are easily managed on a per user basis, should user galleries be used. There are other alternatives to Coppermine too, that's the beauty of the free, open source software world.

So, will it be 2009 before the first photo ever get uploaded around here? I hope not. I'd like to see more 170's. Where is this money from membership fees going, anyway? To me, this website and its wealth of knowledge is the major attraction to such an association, and it's provided by sharing with each other. If I were a paying member(which I'm not, for this reason), I'd be pretty miffed that my $45 wasn't going toward turning this site into a more fully functional resource with photo gallery and wiki.

Has anyone talked to the Backcountry guys, http://www.backcountrypilot.org/ they have a photo system and it seems to work just fine. It’s not like we want to re-invent the wheel. Just a thought, I’m sure they would help us if needed.

You just did, pif. I'd be happy to help, for free. After all, I'm a 170 owner too, and I just want to see this place improved. My argument still stands, though. Why would TIC170A need someone to donate time for something like this, when it's exactly what membership dues should go toward? 3 or 4 memberships would pretty much get you that nicely integrated forum. Of course I'm totally forgetting about the Flypaper and the convention costs and whatever they pay George (do they?) but I just think in this day and age, the benefit you pay for is the body of information, and the website should be focus of that.

Zane

I just had a brief look at http://www.backcountrypilot.org, and it seems to include photos in forum posts the same way TIC170A does: upload your photo somewhere else, and embed a link to it in your text. I guess with the photo gallery you could upload there, but still, if the photo gets removed somehow, it disappears from the forum post.

Lots of people seem to have trouble learning how to put photos in their postings, so I'm still wondering if the TIC170A software can support (or be upgraded to support) an easier method where you could, say, drag and drop a photo into the editing panel and the photo would be automatically uploaded in such a way that it stays with the post forever.

Is there a way to do that?

tripslip38 wrote:You just did, pif. I'd be happy to help, for free. After all, I'm a 170 owner too, and I just want to see this place improved. My argument still stands, though. Why would TIC170A need someone to donate time for something like this, when it's exactly what membership dues should go toward? 3 or 4 memberships would pretty much get you that nicely integrated forum. Of course I'm totally forgetting about the Flypaper and the convention costs and whatever they pay George (do they?) but I just think in this day and age, the benefit you pay for is the body of information, and the website should be focus of that.

Zane

Zane and other non TIC170A members.

The executive secretary is paid a salary and she is not a member. The majority of members want a paper product coming to their door 16 times a year. The paper communications, postage and the executive secretaries salary is where most of the dues go.

All others like George and many more are volunteers and receive no compensation for their time or travel expenses. Conventions are paid for by the members attending, not the TIC170A treasury.

In the world of instant gratification of which the web is a BIG part of it is very difficult to deal with an organization that takes time. The TIC170A like many others is one of those organizations. We the board meet twice a year. Unfortunately sometimes it takes time to get things done.

I have every confidence, as Dale our webmaster has already indicated, that we will see an improvement in regards to the photos and forum situation.

Noted, Bruce.

jrenwick wrote:so I'm still wondering if the TIC170A software can support (or be upgraded to support) an easier method where you could, say, drag and drop a photo into the editing panel and the photo would be automatically uploaded in such a way that it stays with the post forever.

It's true, the embedding of images into posts from the user gallery seems to be a tough one for some members to pull off, but most figure it out. As I mentioned above, version 3.0 of the PhpBB forum software (this forum is running on version 2.xx) will allow you to attach photos to a particular forum post. There's been a mod for that for version 2.0 for a long time, but it's pretty involved.

So, if these forums ever get upgraded, you'll have that functionality. It will likely be a while as ver 3.0 is still in the beta testing phase.

Whew !!! Mercy !!!! Good aim George.......sort of proves the theory that if you are close enough....you don't need to load buckshot, when a skeet load will do it...........

I am a member, #XX20 and I gladly pay my dues. Visiting this site (for free) enabled me to gain the knowledge to purchase my 170A. A purchase that I have never regretted. I have never felt guilty about the "free ride" that I took to gain this information. The day after I purchased my 170A, I joined this association. George you are absolutely correct with the dinner analogy.... Oh, and by the way I wouldn't mind seeing some pictures..

Richard......

And your "free ride" was never resented at all. Everyone at TIC170A who attends the meetings where forums access is discussed universally has supported the continued open access. It's a gift to the flying community, in the knowlege that those who make friendships here will want to be part of the group.
As for your desire to have greater photo capabilities here.... you're singing to the choir.... I do too! I think most of us do. It'll happen. Just how and when it's implemented is under discussion obviously...