When it is gusting pretty good across the runway I tend to prefer wheel landings. I thought I had better control at the slightly higher touchdown speeds.
AOPA has a recent quiz that includes this question:
http://www.aopa.org/asf/asfquiz/quizzes ... %3dFeature
3 point crosswind landings
Moderators: GAHorn, Karl Towle, Bruce Fenstermacher
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cessna170bdriver
- Posts: 4114
- Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2002 5:13 pm
#9: Performing a three-point landing in crosswind conditions may result in a ground loop. True or False. No Brainer. ANY landing in ANY conditions may result in a ground loop, if you aren't paying attention. 
Hmmm...I got 9 out of 10. I changed my answer on what different airplanes require a different tailwheel endorsement, question(#2). I was't sure, and changed from the right to wrong answer. I'm not too concerned though, as I don't forsee being pilot of a multi-engine taildragger anytime soon.
Miles
Hmmm...I got 9 out of 10. I changed my answer on what different airplanes require a different tailwheel endorsement, question(#2). I was't sure, and changed from the right to wrong answer. I'm not too concerned though, as I don't forsee being pilot of a multi-engine taildragger anytime soon.
Miles
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tshort
- Posts: 226
- Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2005 9:45 pm
Hmmmm....
"In crosswind conditions, a three-point (or stall) landing may result in a ground loop. Generally, it's best to use the wheel and wing-low landing methods in crosswind conditions. The additional speed associated with a wheel landing will give the pilot more rudder authority to counteract the crosswind. The wing-low technique entails touching down on one wheel, then settling to all three as the speed decreases."
I got 8/10 ... I missed both of the "opinion" questions about 3 point vs wheel landings!!
T.
"In crosswind conditions, a three-point (or stall) landing may result in a ground loop. Generally, it's best to use the wheel and wing-low landing methods in crosswind conditions. The additional speed associated with a wheel landing will give the pilot more rudder authority to counteract the crosswind. The wing-low technique entails touching down on one wheel, then settling to all three as the speed decreases."
I got 8/10 ... I missed both of the "opinion" questions about 3 point vs wheel landings!!
T.
Thomas Short
1948 C170 N3949V
RV-8 wings in progress
Indianapolis (KUMP)
1948 C170 N3949V
RV-8 wings in progress
Indianapolis (KUMP)
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1SeventyZ
- Posts: 253
- Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2003 2:08 am
I got 10/10 but only because I knew the answers they wanted to hear. I don;t necessarily agree with the idea that a wheelie is safer than a 3-point in a crosswind. That could be because I am low time, or no proficient enough in wheeling landings.
The guy I did my checkout and most recent BFR with said he felt that a 3-point was safer than a wheel landing in a 170 simply because you can stick the tailwheel to runway with aft elevator and reduce directional wandering. He says he used to do wheelies almost exclusively, but one day stuck a 3-pointer in a stiff x-wind and found it to be more stable.
I suppose it depends on whether you do it right or not. With a lot of flaps and excessive airspeed, you can't stick the tailwheel down very authoritatively, and you are going to dance.
The guy I did my checkout and most recent BFR with said he felt that a 3-point was safer than a wheel landing in a 170 simply because you can stick the tailwheel to runway with aft elevator and reduce directional wandering. He says he used to do wheelies almost exclusively, but one day stuck a 3-pointer in a stiff x-wind and found it to be more stable.
I suppose it depends on whether you do it right or not. With a lot of flaps and excessive airspeed, you can't stick the tailwheel down very authoritatively, and you are going to dance.
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dacker
- Posts: 412
- Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2002 2:05 am
You guys obviously don't fly the same airplane that I do! 
In gusty crosswind conditions I have to use the three point landing, and have done so very safely and sucesfully in some pretty high crosswinds. I have never flown a B model, somebody want to let me try theirs sometime? Maybe there is a difference.
In previous posts I have talked about how squirrely mine was until I had the wheels aligned. Wheel landings are much easier now, but in a gusty crosswind there just isn't enough finnesse to squeak on the mains first (usually the gusts are throwing the airplane around too much).
I have flown other airplanes that were much easier to wheel than mine (Scout, Citabria...). This discussion always leaves me wondering what is different if others find wheelies in a crosswind so much easier than simply three pointing it.
David
In gusty crosswind conditions I have to use the three point landing, and have done so very safely and sucesfully in some pretty high crosswinds. I have never flown a B model, somebody want to let me try theirs sometime? Maybe there is a difference.In previous posts I have talked about how squirrely mine was until I had the wheels aligned. Wheel landings are much easier now, but in a gusty crosswind there just isn't enough finnesse to squeak on the mains first (usually the gusts are throwing the airplane around too much).
I have flown other airplanes that were much easier to wheel than mine (Scout, Citabria...). This discussion always leaves me wondering what is different if others find wheelies in a crosswind so much easier than simply three pointing it.
David
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buchanan
- Posts: 114
- Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2003 2:13 pm
David, I also tend to three point, or at least tail way low in a cross wind. I have 8,000+
and about 4,000 tail wheel in many different airplanes from AD Skyraiders (which I almost always wheel landed due to weight and some times coming back with ordinance aboard……these were USAF airplanes [A-1’s] landing on a runway not a deck) to Super Cubs and lots of spray airplanes in between. I think each airplane and situation dictate what is best to do. The most important thing, in my opinion, is to get the upwind main on the ground first followed shortly by either the tail wheel or the other main depending upon speed, gusts what type of airplane etc. I suppose the perfect crosswind landing would be upwind main tail wheel and then the other main. The problem as I see it with wheeling it on is that it can be done with much to much airspeed and then you open yourself up to a long period of “slow-down†while you are subject to the crosswind.
My $.02
Buck, Galena, AK
and about 4,000 tail wheel in many different airplanes from AD Skyraiders (which I almost always wheel landed due to weight and some times coming back with ordinance aboard……these were USAF airplanes [A-1’s] landing on a runway not a deck) to Super Cubs and lots of spray airplanes in between. I think each airplane and situation dictate what is best to do. The most important thing, in my opinion, is to get the upwind main on the ground first followed shortly by either the tail wheel or the other main depending upon speed, gusts what type of airplane etc. I suppose the perfect crosswind landing would be upwind main tail wheel and then the other main. The problem as I see it with wheeling it on is that it can be done with much to much airspeed and then you open yourself up to a long period of “slow-down†while you are subject to the crosswind.
My $.02
Buck, Galena, AK
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buchanan
- Posts: 114
- Joined: Sat Aug 16, 2003 2:13 pm
Thanks.
Yes, I was VERY fortunate to fly the old Skyraider in the SAR (Sandy) role in Southeast Asia. The airplane was without a doubt the best for the mission at that time. It was a forgiving airplane that given any chance at all would bring you home. It may be missing a little sheet metal or a couple cylinders but it was a brute for punishment. The Strella (SA-7) missile implemented by the bad guys in 1972 was our most feared weapon. In my opinion the SAR mission was the most satisfying in the war. I’m sure Steve Ritchie would argue with me but oh well.
Buck, Galena, AK
Yes, I was VERY fortunate to fly the old Skyraider in the SAR (Sandy) role in Southeast Asia. The airplane was without a doubt the best for the mission at that time. It was a forgiving airplane that given any chance at all would bring you home. It may be missing a little sheet metal or a couple cylinders but it was a brute for punishment. The Strella (SA-7) missile implemented by the bad guys in 1972 was our most feared weapon. In my opinion the SAR mission was the most satisfying in the war. I’m sure Steve Ritchie would argue with me but oh well.
Buck, Galena, AK
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iowa
- Posts: 664
- Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 4:57 pm
i hate to admit it
but only got 6 of 10
i didn't know about the prior to 1991 Q
i always use 3-point landing in a strong x wind
i cheat the RW a little
and get the plane as slow as possible.
actually, the taxi to the hangar
in a high wind is tougher!
i flew out of N omaha field in the
mid 80's in a c180 into a 55mph xwind!
fortunately the RW here in GC was
directly into the wind.
....but the taxiing!!
typical low time pilot
i have 1100hrs all but 70 are tailwheel
dave
but only got 6 of 10
i didn't know about the prior to 1991 Q
i always use 3-point landing in a strong x wind
i cheat the RW a little
and get the plane as slow as possible.
actually, the taxi to the hangar
in a high wind is tougher!
i flew out of N omaha field in the
mid 80's in a c180 into a 55mph xwind!
fortunately the RW here in GC was
directly into the wind.
....but the taxiing!!
typical low time pilot
i have 1100hrs all but 70 are tailwheel
dave
1951 170A 1468D SN 20051
1942 L-4B 2764C USAAC 43-572 (9433)
AME #17747
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Haydon
- Posts: 70
- Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2005 5:38 pm
Howdy,
I really agree with dacker and Buck....My experience (little) but crosswind and gusty most of the time...is much the same...I have found for myself that the three point works best for me.....a little nudge of throttle to keep attitude and alignment is all that is required....I do whatever is needed, brakes included to maintain directional control.....
Most of the time out here in West Texas, it is "so windy, it can blow a stagecoach up a horse's hind-end." Our runway (TS65) is 32' wide and my wings overhang it by 4'. Both techniques are use here...three point seems to be prefered.... I am curious and have no "B" model experience. I would not be suprised to learn that a different technique is better for one model than another, due to wing/flap differences...
The only airplane I have flown solo is an "A" model....I could be a bit prejudiced
Thanx mucho everybody.......
Richard....
I really agree with dacker and Buck....My experience (little) but crosswind and gusty most of the time...is much the same...I have found for myself that the three point works best for me.....a little nudge of throttle to keep attitude and alignment is all that is required....I do whatever is needed, brakes included to maintain directional control.....
Most of the time out here in West Texas, it is "so windy, it can blow a stagecoach up a horse's hind-end." Our runway (TS65) is 32' wide and my wings overhang it by 4'. Both techniques are use here...three point seems to be prefered.... I am curious and have no "B" model experience. I would not be suprised to learn that a different technique is better for one model than another, due to wing/flap differences...
The only airplane I have flown solo is an "A" model....I could be a bit prejudiced
Thanx mucho everybody.......
Richard....
Richard Haydon
'49 170A
Ducote Airpark TS65
'49 170A
Ducote Airpark TS65
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