The International Cessna^® 170 Association

N9149A wrote:It is important to note that up to 5% ethanol is acceptable under the MOGAS STCs. In PA at least anywhere within 75 miles of me it is impossible to buy MOGAS with less that 10% ethanol. The stuff we have with 10% ethanol won't last in any equipment I have so I'd never put it in my plane though I'm less worried about putting it in and immediately running it back out. How ever since I've had some weed wackers and a leaf blower with dissolved fuel lines I believe because of the ethanol, I can't bring myself to put it in my airplane anymore.

Hey Bruce

Glad you joined in.
About 10 miles away from from my home, I can get 87 oct. with no ethanol. It is minimum $2/gal and most places around here $3/gal cheaper and my airplane seems to like it. I could knock off the 45 cent road tax if I bought it for my Co-Op E-30 but I have stayed above board on this one. When it comes right down to it I probably won't fly as much when it get 0 or below, and sometimes here, that can last awhile. Throw in the days of blowing and drifting snow the amount of avgas that I would purchase in the winter won't be a big deal. I don't like surprises hence the question of auto gas and winter. When you rent most planes auto gas is not and option. Now that I own one that does, and alot of these guys have been flying with 80/87 for along time in cold climates I was looking for some life experiences and what I should be doing just in case I get a wild hair and want to fly in the cold cold. Engine blankets, preheaters,prop covers etc all somehow have to come out of the wife's egg money and I hate beggin.

I have monitored this cite for sometime now and there certainly has been lots on Avgas and ethanol so I tell ya what....my son is a 1st year eng-ga-neer student @ SDSU where they have been flying 4 different planes on ethanol. 1 is a stock GCBC. I will do some research and report back as to what I find. I also have some buddies flying them goofy RV's and scare the bageebers out of me, they run on ethanhol also. There are about 30 of them about 40 miles south of me. By the way....my son thinks he's smarter than the old man now oh well I guess I did when I was his age too

Willie

W.J.Langholz wrote:Hey Bruce

Glad you joined in.
About 10 miles away from from my home, I can get 87 oct. with no ethanol. It is minimum $2/gal and most places around here $3/gal cheaper and my airplane seems to like it. I could knock off the 45 cent road tax if I bought it for my Co-Op E-30 but I have stayed above board on this one.

Willie

If I could get ethanol free MOGAS I'd run it all summer and all winter all the time. I'd also knock of the road tax cause your not using the road are you. In many states you can apply for a refund of the road tax for fuel not used on the road.

Willie, your use of the term 80/87 and "87 octane" has me confused a bit. Are you saying you can still purchase 80/87 AVGAS at that price? (You're not referrring to AUTOgas as 80/87 are you?)

Next, to all, ... regardless of the amount or percentage of alcohol in the autogas..... page ONE of the TCDS for the Cessna 170 has the following statement:
"WARNING: Use of alcohol-based fuels can cause serious performance degradation and fuel system component damage, and is therefore prohibited on Cessna airplanes."

While an autogas STC supercedes a TCDS, I have very little confidence that the STC developers actually spent any research on this airplane investigating how alcohol is OK in this fuel system (which in fact has no modification whatever to accomodate alcohol) just because of a piece of paper.

W.J.Langholz wrote:... alot of these guys have been flying with 80/87 for along time in cold climates I was looking for some life experiences and what I should be doing just in case I get a wild hair and want to fly in the cold cold. ...
Willie

Willie,

From the context of your post it seems that you are referring "80/87 as auto gas? Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I've always thought the term "80/87" refers to 80-octane avgas, which has not been available anywhere that I know of for several years now. Autogas is usually referred to as a single octane number such as 87, or 89, etc.

I don't know for sure, but I would think that the spec for whatever fuel you plan to use woluld make mention of a useful temperature range, although I suppose that could vary among different airframe and engine combinations. FWIW, I have personal experience that says 100LL works just fine in an O-300 at -20F at 7500ft. My guess is that there are many of you that can beat those numbers

Miles

Without sounding like I'm running for office........the thread started out as Auto gas questions, I miss spoke with 80/87 I meant to say auto gas. On with the show with auto gas.

George I will see what kind of data I can come up with on ethanol. I thought the guy told me they were going run the gcbc to 2000 hours and tear it back down. The ethanol question is a very big one. I don't much like burning food (corn) however my sideline work is farming and livestock production, and it sure has been a wild ride this year. That being said one has to keep and open mind to alternative fuels, would I use ethanol today in my plane, no. I had a dream 25 years ago that someday I was going to own my own plane, this spring that came true. However we have to be careful not to stieffel new ideas in alternative fuels.

Bruce,

You state that ethanol up to 5% is authorized in the STCs for mogas.
My STC from Peterson does not contain any mention of ethanol.
The STC that EAA developed was sponsored by an oil company that did not use tetraethyl lead in their product and as a result the EAA STC specified unleaded fuel on at a time that regular auto fuel normally contained tetraethyl lead.
I am referring to the time that the auto fuel STCs became available from both the EAA and Peterson, sometime around 1990.
Perhaps the STCs issued later on brought up the subject of permissive limits of ethanol in the fuel.