Keeping a Plane Outside???

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Hey Bill at $400 a month I could not only paint the plane every three years If I just held off for about 10 I could buy another plane. We have two members in NJ who are long time 170 owners. They both keep their planes outside. Both of their planes could be found near the top of the judging at any annual convention. Keeping planes outside is more work probably but they don't have to deteriorate to an unairworthy state.

My plane did not get totally loose. As it was it pivoted almost 90 degrees about the tail. Didn't really come close to the airplanes next to it but that could be different other places.

Our airport authority requires insurance and proof of it once a year. Of course that would stop someone from canceling it right after showing proof.

[W.J.Langholz]

Alot of good points

Dave I like the double lash, good idea,
Bill K I know how you feel, my plane has a value today of 22-25,000 which when it comes to plane is not alot, but it is a nice looking well taken care of plane and it's all mine. That being said it still is not alot of money in some ways and I guess that's why you buy insurance.
George, I don't have to worry much about the plane next to me becuase there aren't any here, unless they just came in and will be gone by dark. I've talked to some guys that share a big hanger and claim they have more minor damage do to hanger rash than they think they might have outside.
Richard, 20 years is a long time in Alaska to be outside, I bet you learned alot, maybe some the hard way.

lots to think about

W.

[GAHorn]

Yes, that is another matter to think about.... the potential for hangar-rash in a common hangar.

If you are in a common-hangar: Is there a written contract? What are the rules for moving airplanes in/out of the hangar? Are the persons authorized to do that activity trained? Who is responsible for incurred hangar-rash? Is the FBO the only authorized aircraft-mover? Does the FBO have a policy of having TWO employees on the job at all times...one to tow...one to walk the wings? Does the hangar owner have Hangar-Keeper's insurance? How will claims be handled? Will replacement aircraft be provided while yours is being repaired? Does the FBO have a policy regarding approaching storms to insure the hangar doors are closed in a timely fashion? Are the policies and employee instructions in writing and available for your inspection? What about fire suppression? What about tenant-storage rules? Is there provision for storage of personal items? What about hazardous materials storage? Who has keys to the hangar?

If you are in a T-hangar: What are the rules regarding storage of materials in adjacent hangars? Are the compartments open to each other above seperation-panels..?...or do the walls fully extend floor to ceiling? Can someone from one hangar-space gain access to another?

All hangars: What kind/type of doors exist? Are there safety-braces/cables to prevent a windstorm from lifting a door from it's tracks and dropping it onto an airplane? Are there alternate emergency exists for personel in case of a fire?

Does the local fire department have access to hangars and knowlege of aircraft and hangar fires? (Small local/volunteer fire departments/first-responders are brought to mind with this question.)

[3958v]

Bruce I am not condemning others who tie down out side but I feel you need to consider that Cessna will never make any more 170s. At our present rate of plane production in this world general aviation would die really fast if we kept all our planes out side Even with new paint every couple of years you will not preserve your plane as well as the guy who keeps it inside and takes pride in what he has. Striping and painting an airplane every few years cant be the best for them either. The other thing is when considering the cost of a hangar you need to subtract the cost of a tie down from the cost of the hangar to find the real cost of indoor storage. I guess if its just about money you can't really justify a hangar in our part of the world but I sure feel better having my plane out of the wind, hail, sun, rain and snow. Bill K

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Hey Bill we're just rattling off ideas here and bringing out all sides of the story. I took tie down cost into consideration. Hanger in UKT $420, Tie-down $91. That works out to $329 a month or $3948 a year. That is rent, you've got nothing to show for it when you walk away. I know you all can do the math and I'm beating a dead horse.

The fact is that it is not the cost of the aircraft or the gas that is the most expensive thing to owning an aircraft in the north east. Over 15 years your storage could be half your total cost if you have a hanger.

I've also got to share some other observations. A hanger may stop the rain from falling directly on top of the airplane, lots I've seen actually leak so that is not always the case, but it doesn't stop the aircraft from getting wet from condensation. I've walked in hangers at our airport that you think had their own tropical climate built in. Then there is the captured heat in the summer. In 20 years I've never had a rodent in my tied down aircraft to chew on things and do it's part start corrosion. Everyone of my friends with hangers have 10 mouse traps they feed the mice with.

OK one thing tie downs are no good for is storing all that collected treasure that won't fit in your garage at home. You know what I'm talking about. Besides an airplane, which is a requirement for a hanger at UKT, most of the hangers also have a boat (which we call pontoons because your not suppose to store boats). Maybe be an extra car or motorcycle or both with a snow blower and a mower or two. Then of course there is that living room furniture your wife replaced 15 years ago. On the shelf you have the box full of old charts, a few E6Bs, one in metal and one in plastic, two different style knee boards you'll never use again since you got that super duper version last year and at the bottom a half used bottle of last decades window cleaning agent. Have I missed anything? Dam I wish I had a hanger.

[GAHorn]

Hey Bill we're just rattling off ideas here and bringing out all sides of the story. I took tie down cost into consideration. Hanger in UKT $420, Tie-down $91. That works out to $329 a month or $3948 a year. That is rent, you've got nothing to show for it when you walk away. I know you all can do the math and I'm beating a dead horse. ...

...and at the bottom a half used bottle of last decades window cleaning agent. Have I missed anything? Dam I wish I had a hanger.

That's $80,000 over a twenty year period, NOT including the interest! You could buy a pretty nice hangar for that...and have the asset in your possession at the end of the period. You guys in the city need to move to the country and put in your own hangar and strip. With the tie-down/hangar/etc fees you'll get from others you'll have the place paid off in 10 years.

Ten year-old window cleaner is called whiskey!

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

George, Teresa (my wife) says the same thing. The only way I'll have a hanger is to buy it. Problem is I'd have to move so far in the country to find affordable land enough for a runway and hanger that there would be no jobs to pay for it. $80K won't get you a half acre around my part of the woods.

[minton]

Wind, hail, grit (blown dust), inadequate tiedowns, inadequate neighbor tie downs, theft, vandalism, neglegent snow removers (blown hard objects). I'd spend the money on a hangar.

[Kyle Wolfe]

The one benefit of a hangar you guys are all missing is probably the one that's most important to me.....

Following a flight, Becky and I always fill the airplane, drop in some TCP, clean off the bugs, neaten up the cabin and then sit down for a minute (often with an adult beverage) in the hangar and just reflect on how wonderful the past few moments have been. She really enjoys those times and so do I. It's even better if it's just past sunset witht the blue taxi way lights on. It times like that which really makes it all worthwhile.

Willie, I know that's not what Jon needs (though he'd make a wonderful impression on all those college girls doing that!) but I'd still opt for the hangar route. It will give you both piece of mind and protection. And it's not long term so the costs won't be an issue.

[futr_alaskaflyer]

Hangar? What is this "hangar" of which you speak

[pojawis]

...then sit down for a minute ...

I often do the same thing - outside. Cinch the lines, adjust the covers, lock the doors, do that "post-flight" inspection, open a Porter, plant my posterior on the port side tire, look out over the Appalachians, and enjoy the sunset. I've found that the flat gear leg is just wide enough, when centered upon my spine, to make a fairly comfortable recliner. The case in which the Porter was transported makes a nice footrest. I then let the Walter Middy-isms take me away. Time for a nap...

[GAHorn]

[..., open a Porter, ...let the Walter Middy-isms take me away. ...

Ah-HA! An Educated Appalacian!

[flyguy]

sit down for a minute (often with an adult beverage) in the hangar and just reflect

I GOTS THE LEF OVER ST PAWLIE GURL BUT DOGONE IFN I CUD JUS FINE A PLACE TO SIT DOUN ID SLURP SUM

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Hey Gar when you fix'in that bug and driving it to a convention like Duane Shockey? Which is more likely to get to a convention first, the bug or your 170? I'm thinking the bug is a more likely candidate.

BTW it doesn't look like Deana knows you got St Pauli Girls stashed close by. I don't see one open anywere around her.

[GAHorn]

A TIC170A wife is the most wonderful miracle God ever created, considering all the poop they put up with. I think God made them out of one of our Ribs...... PN 0523507-1 (Fig. 8, item 12)