The International Cessna^® 170 Association

gahorn wrote: $3.84 for avgas at Nacogdoches TX just yesterday.

Holy moly I wish I could get a tanker full at that price, the local FBO here was at $5.86 last time I checked. Since then I've just been trying to pretend I don't notice.

I researched some past AV-18s I used to do in the field as a tech rep for TCM. I looked specifically for exhaust valve problems with O-470 factory engines. I also looked at ones for cylinders for 0-200and 0-300. Over 90 percent were denied and they were operating with mogas. There may also have been some other factors but, operating on Mogas was deemed the reason for denying the claim. I also know of three reputable engine shops that will not honor their warranty if mogas is used in their overhauled engines. I suspect there are more. It is easy to determine if mogas is used by visual inspection and by smell. Engine manufacturers have a specific analytical department for inspecting parts and engines sent back. They have many inspection techniques at their disposal and many qualified engineers and metalugists as well. Operation of your engine on TODAYS mogas is illegal and also will damage components and cylinder components...exhaust valves. This again is due to heat. There is a wealth of information n this subject and again I hated to respond as I have been to many seminars and they get quite heated in this debate. Thanks George, yes we are all friends and believe me I am able to let personal attacks run off my back like water off a ducks back. It used to go with the territory with that job. No one likes to think they may be wrong. Like I said earlier, when I quit learning it is time to hang up the wrenches. Everyone does have an opinion but it is best to let the facts speak for themselves. Fly safe everyone

Wow mogas here is 3.47 a gallon and i just last night paid 4.86 for Avgas. Crazy the regional differences.

$3.10 for car gas here right now at the corner store, undoubtly could find a few cents cheaper if I look. 100LL at the 4 nearest places, $5.14 to $5.35 I am still getting alcohol free gas.I have had enough scares with lead fouling plugs and sticking valves to know what is better for my engine. I can well afford to pay for 100LL but why should I buy it knowing the problems. Not surprised they rejected 90% of the claims, they would have done the same thing if they used 100LL. Talk to some of the new Legend Cub owners that have had cylinder problems with the BRAND NEW 0-200's in their plane and have been using 100LL, Continental rejected their claims too.

Rejected claims from Continental is the reason I would never buy any of their parts that were also available from Superior or other after market sources. Isn't it strange that when Superior came out with cylinders for Continental engines for half the price,
Continental suddenly realised that they could still make money by meeting Superiors price. Thanks for competition.

Dick,

Be careful with that carburetor I just sent you (as well as the engine I sent previously), it's been contaminated with 100LL. I ran about 1400 gallons through it. No telling how much before I got it.

Miles

Miles,
I am a real fan of 100 octane gasoline. When I was crewing a B-29 back during the big war when they were new, we all had a fitting and a hose to connect to the fuel strainer of each engine. As you may well have heard, the intrepid Wright 3350 engine was an oil leaking SOB and the engines really needed a cleaning up after each flight . Thats when we hooked the fitting and hose up to the fuel strainer and turned the fuel boost pump on high to hose down the oily engines. 100 octane was one of the best degreasers ever developed. The B-29 would have been a complete failure without 100 octane gasoline. As a matter of fact, we even ran some of it through the engine as fuel.
In later years when the Air Force switched over to 115/145 octane, purple dyed fuel, it wasn't nearly as good a degreaser. Seems the old green colored 100/130 fuel didn't worry the flight line fire department nearly as much. Maybe it was the old green fuel kind of looked like zinc chromate primer residue. Purple was kind of a homosexual color and the old Air Force wouldn't stand for that.

Hoping to dispel some myths thru education and avoid repeating some of the arguments of the past:
For informative and interesting reading about gasoline/lead/alcohol as pertaining to fuels:

Historical article regarding ethanol: http://www.runet.edu/~wkovarik/papers/f ... conclusion

Regarding the development and use of lead in gasoline: http://www.runet.edu/~wkovarik/papers/k ... l#troubles

Haven't we all read the studies conducted by our favorite state and Federal folk that assures us that there is no manipulation by fuel companies either the distillers or distributors Yeah, right and I can get 2000' per minute climb rate from my O-300D on a hot summer day.

If one "googles" $5 gallon gasoline".... one will read many many posts which declared the sky was falling sevaral years ago, predicting $5/gal be the end of 2008. Some of those threads border on humor due to their outrageous reaons for the predicted inflation. (If if weren't such a sad commentary on our fellow citizen's info sources and thought processes.)
Doubtless, some day in the future gas will cost that and even more, not just because of crude oil prices but also because the dollar will be worth so much less as we continue to buy chineese and other foreign products.
There is only ONE way to stop it. Insist on buying American...no matter how much more it costs for better quality product.
Eventually it will mean a better place for us and our children's children.

PS: If this msg post seems out of place... it's because it was a response to Joel's previous post...which he subsequently removed, apparently believing mine were intended to be provacative. I had no such intent. I'm surprised when someone misreads me like that, I apologize if anyone else thought that.

May everyone get an oil company gift card in their stockings.

I was just thinking of Joel's post as I just returned from the gas station where the price was $3.05 up 5 cents from just this Monday. I've noticed there are areas that seem to be a bit behind others when gas prices start to move and that holds true for 100LL as well. Of course you generally don't know how your area is compared to others unless you travel a lot. What Joel was seeing happened here in eastern PA about two weeks ago

I'm sure if it hasn't happened already 100LL will be over $5, I wouldn't be surprised if its $5.25. It''s never really dropped lower that $4.80 around here yet I've heard of places selling it for $3 something in parts of the country.

I was a big proponent of MOGAS prior to ethanol. So I've been watching the price difference between it and 100LL for some time. Actually since I started flying airplanes in 1990. In my area it has usually been right around a $2 difference. The lowest differential I recall was just over a $1 which lasted less than week it seemed, then 100LL shot up. This was many years ago now.

Just checked LFT lafayette, La 5.85/gal OPL 20 miles north 3.99. Our great airport commission's helping hand Yea right. Ron

I used to use a lot of mogas in my C-140A (C-90) & in my current O300-B. Basically no problems save for a carb needle replacement in the C-90 & the primer didn't work quite as well w/ mogas vs 100LL. Since they put that additive in fuel years ago and now ethanol I won't use it unless in an emergency. However a lot of folks do with no apparent problems. Fuel prices are always a mystery. In our area around Fort Worth/Dallas it ranges from $5.00-$6.00 at the big airports and we have been paying $3.61 for several months at Grand Prairie (GPM). Mogas is nutts! Around Fort Worth it has jumped up to around $2.89 in the past several weeks (greed due to the holiday travel). Just drove up here to Castle Rock, CO (Denver area) and paid $2.87 in Amarillo, $2.80 in Trinidad, CO & $2.67 in Castle Rock. Go figure The closer to the source of the crude (domestic) & the refinery, the higher the cost. Oil speculators tend to run up the cost of crude futures as well They are out to get us and I think they have been successful

Ever since the removal of MTBE in motor fuel in California about eighteen years ago, the oil companies have had to add ethanol as an oxygenator. I have been led to understand that this is a federal requirement. In testing, I have always found the alcohol to be about 5% in any sample of any brand. I fully realize that this precludes the use of this fuel in any certificated airplane if only because it would not be in compliance with the STC allowing the use of auto fuel in a particular airplane.
Because of the failure to ever find a source of alcohol free auto fuel here in California, I have continued to use the alcohol laced mogas without ever being to able to detect any change in any kind of operation. I did find that cold weather starting of the engine was more difficult on 87 octane mogas until I changed the primer plumbing to prime each cylinder by installing a flow divider and primer nozzel in each cylinder intake port. I was never able to detect in any manner that the engine operation was being effected by the alcohol, nor did I ever have any noticable effect on any part of the fuel system.

I did not remove any posts...don't even know how to