BFR's. - inadvertent flight into IMC

[GAHorn]

My previous comments were never intended to be interpreted as personal.
My "humor" was meant to be a poke at your acquiring an airplane that could carry a typical 170 if you could fit one in there. That' makes you "well-to-do" compared to the rest of us.
I disagree with the popular idea there are loads of people who won't get up to work and expect handouts for sustainence. No one chooses to be indigent. (If anyone thinks differently they should try it, without recourse. I know of no one who ever took up the challenge of "sell all you have and follow me".)
Nor do I agree with those who mime as their religious beliefs "give a man a fish...or teach a man to fish" That's not what He said. He said to do what they abhorr..."Give to the poor"
(I know lots of guys who were taught skills who can't find work.)

(I've got to get off my soapbox too.)

How does this relate to the topic?
As long as one has no instrument rating you are "poor" as far as flying skills go. It matters not how short you can land or how sweetly you can manuever. You are not fully-qualified as a pilot.
You can do something about it.

[blueldr]

I guess the road goes both ways. It is always surprising to me how many very experienced ATP pilots, with an almost astrononical number of flying hours and experience, can get themselves into very deep trouble in small general aviation airplanes. Sometimes with fatal results.

[GAHorn]

That's true, Eldr.
I know of several incidents where such a person went off into the junk and didn't want to admit they should have filed an IFR first.... or they refused to believe in their own vulnerability... and didn't want a violation, so they began to do things even stooopider on the flight.
Having the rating doesn't mean you can't get arrogant or are immune to bad judgement/choices.
Professional is, as professional does.

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Well this thread has certainly gotten off on a few tracks that I didn't see coming.

[W.J.Langholz]

Bruce

Looks like it's going to clear up partly cloudy ....... how about the weather where you live.


W.

[170C]

Needing an IFR ticket Most of the comments are hitting really close to home Although I am not a longtime pilot (27+ yrs) and not a high time one either (2500+hrs) I still don't have an IFR ticket--I know, shame on me I think one of the excuses I have used over the years is that I don't relish the thought of having to do all that mental math caclulations. As far as flying the plane via the instruments I think I could do a reasonable job, especially with some additional training. I have had several situations where I probably would not have been here today had I not relied on what minor instrument training I have and did, in fact, rely on the instruments rather than what my mind was telling me. A couple of the situations scared the c_ _ _ out of me and of course I said if I got out of that situation I was going to get my ticket, but I didn't. Whether I will ever do so is in question, but I am of the opinion that I could learn a lot by just getting some instrument instruction time even if not actually getting the rating. I realize to have the training and not the ticket still makes it illegal to fly in IMC. That I might do if I can find the instructor, etc. An old Air Force pilot/test pilot friend of mine told me flying IFR, to him, was actually a lot more fun than doing so VFR. The best part of this discussion has been to remind me how senseless it is to get into IMC with only VFR capabilities, but who among us hasn't done so at one time or another

[W.J.Langholz]

Frank

I think that what db99577, the op, was trying to say. He had a good BFR and learned something new to him. We need to be cognisant of the fact there are many different levels of piloting skills on this forum and we need to be careful to recognise that share in their joy. It fosters" comradery" and with the fast decline of pilots we need to do everything we can to support each other no matter what skill level they are at.
It was a beautiful evening here in s.w. Minnesota (finally) so the Mrs and I spent 1.5 hours on the Hobbs enjoying what we have been blessed with.

By the way I think everyone should do a BFR no matter your status, including those that give BFR's. It is and opertunity to "learn" something new and to share with others.

W.

[blueldr]

A BFR can be great with the proper instructor. Most of the instructors I seem to run into today are "youths" trying to build time.
The square is filled and that's all.

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

By the way I think everyone should do a BFR no matter your status, including those that give BFR's. It is and opertunity to "learn" something new and to share with others.

You are quite right W. While NOT a flight review, my recent flight in the desert with Doug was quite refreshing. I had lots of questions about flying in that terrain and he was the consummate instructor. Been a long time since I heard coaching from the other seat.

I think that what db99577, the op, was trying to say. He had a good BFR and learned something new to him. We need to be cognisant of the fact there are many different levels of piloting skills on this forum and we need to be careful to recognise that share in their joy.

You are quite right again W. I thought one direction this thread would take is a tip or two that was learned or relearned for us older dogs.

A BFR can be great with the proper instructor. Most of the instructors I seem to run into today are "youths" trying to build time.
The square is filled and that's all.

You are right blueldr. Learning can go both ways though. You might be getting a check in the box AND a perfect opportunity to pass something on to a newer instructor not fortunate enough to have had the training some of us had in the old days.

[voorheesh]

I have an instrument rating and a CFII but I don't use them too much anymore. My 1950 170A has only needle ball and airspeed with magnetic compass (pretty much original panel). I think it is interesting to practice flying by reference to these instruments in case I ever get into a jam. Get a safety pilot and practice making climbs and descents, 180 degree turns etc. If I remember, doesn't the compass stay pretty steady on a southerly heading which could help you keep the wings level during a descent? These are maneuvers I think are worthwhile practicing with a CFI during a flight review.

[GAHorn]

...doesn't the compass stay pretty steady on a southerly heading which could help you keep the wings level during a descent? ....

That's lovely info... if you happen to find yourself confused while on a Southerly heading.

Soooo ... if you guys ever get indadvertently into a cloud on any heading but South.... just bend over and ....

( I am always amused at all the useless info from primary training... Thinkgs like ANDS (Accelerate-North, Decelerate-South, : Compass turning errors) and "True Virgins Make Dull Companions" : TVDC, Order of calculations for determining a course-line) ...etc etc.
I haven't any useful idea on how such matters are anything other than YET ANOTHER CRAZY DISTRACTION during an emergency.

There is a recent/fresh news-story about how some Pakistani Air Force pilots using 25 year-old F-16's defeated the newest Euro-Fighter aircraft in combat games. The incredible outcome is easily explained: The Pakistani pilots practiced. The Euro-pilots were blindly believing their equipment alone would accomplish a victory for them. WRONG!

The only way to be proficient flying on instruments is to TRAIN and PRACTICE.

The best way to do that is to TAKE INSTRUMENT TRAINING.... not a BFR.....not a "few hours" under the hood...with some equally non-proficient buddy who happens to be an instructor .... but REAL training towards an instrument rating...even if you never take the tests, even if you never complete the rating! (But hopefully you will complete it and have a new rating. Eventually you'll likely save enough on insurance to pay for the costs, and in the meantimg a competent instructor will make it FUN...not intimidating. (In fact... when you hire the guy... TELL him he'd better make it FUN or he's going to find himself fired.)

[blueldr]

One of the more serious problems that I've seen among the general aviation pilots having an instrument rating is their reluctance to maintain the proper proficiency necessary to safely fly in actual instrumrnt conditions. After I left flying on the airline I completely gave up the idea that I would do any flying in IFR conditions simply beause I was no longer maintaining the necessary proficiency to keep from busting my butt. I was just not motivated to get the practice needed.