Prebuy Inspection issues

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voorheesh
Posts: 603
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:22 am

Re: Prebuy Inspection issues

Post by voorheesh »

Just what we need, another opinion(s)

If you are buying an airplane and your goal is to start and continue flying it with a minimum of surprises, then get an IA who you trust, preferably the one who will perform annuals/maintenance for you in the future and inspect the airplane. To me the most important qualification for the person inspecting the airplane is his/her experience and knowledge of the type/make/model. Lets face it folks, these birds are 60 plus years old, and anyone who thinks they can get a "guarantee" out of any inspection is kidding themselves. Having said that, if you get a 170 "right", it is probably one of the most reliable and least maintenance intensive airplanes available.

If you decide to perform an annual for the pre buy, you are putting the seller in a precarious position because an IA performing an actual annual is required to enter the inspection in the aircraft maintenance records and notify the owner of discrepancies. Remember, the IA is responsible for the inspection. The owner is responsible for the airworthiness. Just like repair stations that inspect crank shafts, there are different "opinions" and "findings" from different IAs. I see and hear about that all the time. Frequently, honest and competent individuals have different standards and techniques. Who are we to say who is right or wrong?

The comment recommending an inspection with findings noted informally and provided to both seller and buyer is the best way to handle this IMO. This is not an inspection required by the FAA. The buyers IA should inspect. The owner should provide an IA or A&P to actually perform any "maintenance" required for the inspection and then return it to service on behalf of the owner. This avoids all the subsequent finger pointing and accusations (Oh that never happens in aviation, does it?). However you do it, make sure both seller and prospective buyer and mechanic all understand what is happening and who is responsible. An ideal situation would be if the airplane was due for an annual, in which case, both the seller and prospective buyer might benefit from an actual annual inspection by a mutually acceptable IA.

I am disappointed by pilots who would not trust an IA with maintenance records. That sends an intimidating message to the Aviation Maintenance Technician that is insulting and entirely unnecessary IMO. If you can't find a qualified IA who you can trust, you should consider taking up another hobby. If you can't trust him/her with your logbooks, do you mean to tell me you are comfortable putting your life and safety on the line when you go fly the airplane just inspected? Good grief!

Lets say you have an annual inspection and the IA makes a record of a condition you disagree with. That is not the end of the world. That IA is not required to correct that condition. You can take the airplane to another A&P, IA, or Repair Station and get it corrected/signed off. The most important thing is to get it done right. To be safe.

One last opinion, be careful buying an airplane a far way from home. You are at a total disadvantage. You are more likely to overlook an obvious major problem because of the stress you put yourself under on someone else's turf. Ask me how I know this :) . You are far better off buying an airplane close to home where you can get your own mechanic/IA to inspect and maybe learn of the sellers reputation which can be telling.
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canav8
Posts: 1006
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:34 pm

Re: Prebuy Inspection issues

Post by canav8 »

voorheesh wrote:Just what we need, another opinion(s)

If you are buying an airplane and your goal is to start and continue flying it with a minimum of surprises, then get an IA who you trust, preferably the one who will perform annuals/maintenance for you in the future and inspect the airplane. To me the most important qualification for the person inspecting the airplane is his/her experience and knowledge of the type/make/model. Lets face it folks, these birds are 60 plus years old, and anyone who thinks they can get a "guarantee" out of any inspection is kidding themselves. Having said that, if you get a 170 "right", it is probably one of the most reliable and least maintenance intensive airplanes available.

If you decide to perform an annual for the pre buy, you are putting the seller in a precarious position because an IA performing an actual annual is required to enter the inspection in the aircraft maintenance records and notify the owner of discrepancies. Remember, the IA is responsible for the inspection. The owner is responsible for the airworthiness. Just like repair stations that inspect crank shafts, there are different "opinions" and "findings" from different IAs. I see and hear about that all the time. Frequently, honest and competent individuals have different standards and techniques. Who are we to say who is right or wrong?

The comment recommending an inspection with findings noted informally and provided to both seller and buyer is the best way to handle this IMO. This is not an inspection required by the FAA. The buyers IA should inspect. The owner should provide an IA or A&P to actually perform any "maintenance" required for the inspection and then return it to service on behalf of the owner. This avoids all the subsequent finger pointing and accusations (Oh that never happens in aviation, does it?). However you do it, make sure both seller and prospective buyer and mechanic all understand what is happening and who is responsible. An ideal situation would be if the airplane was due for an annual, in which case, both the seller and prospective buyer might benefit from an actual annual inspection by a mutually acceptable IA.

I am disappointed by pilots who would not trust an IA with maintenance records. That sends an intimidating message to the Aviation Maintenance Technician that is insulting and entirely unnecessary IMO. If you can't find a qualified IA who you can trust, you should consider taking up another hobby. If you can't trust him/her with your logbooks, do you mean to tell me you are comfortable putting your life and safety on the line when you go fly the airplane just inspected? Good grief!

Lets say you have an annual inspection and the IA makes a record of a condition you disagree with. That is not the end of the world. That IA is not required to correct that condition. You can take the airplane to another A&P, IA, or Repair Station and get it corrected/signed off. The most important thing is to get it done right. To be safe.

One last opinion, be careful buying an airplane a far way from home. You are at a total disadvantage. You are more likely to overlook an obvious major problem because of the stress you put yourself under on someone else's turf. Ask me how I know this :) . You are far better off buying an airplane close to home where you can get your own mechanic/IA to inspect and maybe learn of the sellers reputation which can be telling.
Well Stated.
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52' C-170B N2713D Ser #25255
Doug
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Greg Bockelman
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 7:38 pm

Re: Prebuy Inspection issues

Post by Greg Bockelman »

Aryana wrote:If a plane doesn't measure up or if you just don't like it, move on as there are plenty of other nice ones to choose from. The same goes for A&Ps/IAs too.
THAT depends on the market. I have been looking for a very specific airplane since I sold the 195 in August. In that time, there have only been 5 or 6 for sale in the various publications I monitor. The one I am currently looking at looks GREAT on paper, but peel away the layers of the onion, so to say, and the warts become apparent.

So how DO you value hail damage on a ragwing 170? Fuselage and fabric ok, dings on the metal horizontal surfaces.
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Bruce Fenstermacher
Posts: 10418
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 11:24 am

Re: Prebuy Inspection issues

Post by Bruce Fenstermacher »

Well guys I've had enough. I don't know if I've erased enough to remove all the offending words but I really don't care to reread it all. If there is more one or the other thinks I should erase so it does not stand let me know in a PM. The thread is locked.

Sorry Greg.
CAUTION - My forum posts may be worth what you paid for them!

Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
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