The International Cessna^® 170 Association

The drawings are not PART of the STC. The STC itself only calls out the mount by part number.
If you buy JUST the STC you have no drawings nor data to FABRICATE the mount.
Tom is evidently willing to sell that separately tho.
So, one would need to VERIFY that the drawings that Tom is selling are the Approved design drawings.



Also, George's posting is spot on. I don't know how I missed it all this time.
Yes, an A&P can make the mount for you but YOU have to be involved with the process to one degree or another.
What I meant was, an A&P (or anyone for that matter) can not fabricate the mount so that it may be bought off the shelf. (without PMA or other approval).
For it to be Owner Made, the Owner needs to be involved in some way.

bagarre wrote:The drawings are not PART of the STC. The STC itself only calls out the mount by part number.
If you buy JUST the STC you have no drawings nor data to FABRICATE the mount.
Tom is evidently willing to sell that separately tho.
So, one would need to VERIFY that the drawings that Tom is selling are the Approved design drawings..

The drawings are required to be part of the certification process, thus they must be approved, but they are intellectual property and can be sold separately as Tom is doing. I priced the whole package and didn't bother to ask what the price of the drawings separately.

Well just to keep this going or possibly to kill it; I got the news on my xp's engine. This is an aircraft I bought because I'm not that smart....it's got a factory float kit but has never been on floats...but has been sitting for awhile. So I'm into a "restore"project. The engine was a bit of an unknown until this morning. The airplane had sat because the engine had begun to make metal and although the engine had a KB data plate, it's serial number was a non KB build thus there were few gamblers out there.
The good news, the metal was a main bearing that had begun to shift but had not had a chance to cause further damage. The best news, it's a KB with all the mods and the heavy rods, so this fool lucked out. The bad news for all those out there thinking about this power upgrade, the rebuild with a very good core (which I now know that I have) will run around 32K....and that's probably a killer for anyone thinking of going out to get the rest of the parts to make this conversion.

$32K. That sounds stiff even for an overhaul. Have you checked around?

Yeah that seems real steep. I'd get a second opinion on that if I were you. I would think more like $25,000 on the upper end. I did most of the leg work on mine myself, disassembled, cleaned, sent all the parts off for inspection/repair/overhaul/ect... I then hired a guy that has built a dozen or more of these motors to assemble it for me. His labor was $3,500. If your motor is in good shape I would think you wouldn't have more than $10,000-$15,000 into parts depending on if you buy new cylinders and cam or overhaul what you have.
I have heard of $25,000+ quotes to overhaul an O-300 or an O-360 as well. Granted those were high as well but my point is overhauling the IO-360 should come in within $5,000 of a O-300 or O-360 as long as they are in comparable condition.

New is 39.7, rebuilt if core is good is 33k from Continental. I'll forward the numbers when I get the estimate breakdown. New cylinders means 8500 right from the get go. My present engine which was overhauled by this same shop just ticks along. Yes I could do it myself and save a bit but that approach would be reflected in the resale value down the road and limit the available buyers. Whereas the shop is approved and the engine would be available for commercial service should I decide to sell it.
Yes my last overhaul, just like the price of gas 7 years ago seems to have been a deal now. I'd hold out longer waiting for prices to drop but don't think Time is going to stop for me.

I have a Continental IO-360G engine with a reconditoned first run 82" McCauley prop 2A34C203/90DCA-8. The engine mount is from a Cessna 337. The next challenge is finding a new or rebuilt govenor.

Could anyone please advise which model of McCauley govenor(s) is used with this combination?

Any assistance would be appreciated. Thanks

all the best,
Glenn Patterson

Glenn,
This is from the for what it is worth department, below is the page from the 172K part manual that covers the prop governor. The governor is item -18.

Don't know, but the R172k engine was a 360K engine initially then a KB engine. Big differences in these two engines and again differences with your engine. Each engine type has specific crank harmonics requiring a matched propellor. Not to say you can't find something that works but your one off modification will require you to prove your components can live together. Likely you know all this and thus copying the XP STC which will state the eng, prop and gov models will be the path of least resistance. Anyone got a copy?

c170b53 wrote:.................. Anyone got a copy?

All right-all right Jim, what a nag! It appears Glenn has the correct prop for the XP-mods STC he would have to change the engines -G designation to -C, -K or -KB. The XP-mods STC calls for their part number prop governor "XP # C299506B0104".

(

All right-all right Jim, what a nag

...Feels like I just got caught out in an open field without a shovel....Incomming!!!!)
Err..thks John
I know I've seen a Continental chart with the engine model numbers, their cranks and the differences in the cranks but I can't remember where I saw it but likely its easier to change the engine than change the engine designation. And seeing that a K needs a new crank, the KB's are impossible to find used, looks like a "C" maybe the cheapest way to go if you can find one.

Hi All,
Thank you John for posting the information on the govenor for me. It is really appreciated. I dont know if anyone has mentioned this in the past but here is a valuable tidbit of information. This is a link to the European Aviation Safety Agency's Data sheet that list all the differences between the each of the Continental IO-360 engines. Of interest is the different balance arrangements. This will let you cut and paste it into your Internet Explorer address line and it is a PDF file that you can save for your files.
http://www.easa.europa.eu/certification ... 032004.pdf
All the best,
Glenn

We have found a Continental IO-360G and its harmonic balancers are the same as the K & KB engines. The G engine is common to Cessna 337's which use one front & back so there are a lot of these engines around. One could find out what it would cost to switch it over and perhaps it could be partnered with a rebuild if one found a good rebuildable core. Don George Engines say they will rebuild an IO-360 for around $20K so it may be worth a conversation with them as to the conversion to a K engine provided the changes are all external as part of a rebuild. If looking at a rebuildable engine ensure that it has the VAR crankshaft installed & that should be in the engine logs. The VAR cranshaft was a change to a better built crank to alleviate crank issues. Occasionally rebuildable engines show up on barnstormers or one could look for them in the Cessna 337 owner forum. I would recommend not to buy an engine w/o logs.

We found the correct prop and they are common to a Cessna 180s etc and are an easier find. The prop starts out as a 90" prop and can be trimmed to 82" w/o any issues. We had our eyes opened on this one as many offer the new 82" prop at a much higher cost than a longer prop so we thought that there must be a lot of work to this or a different blade. The -8 designation on the end of the prop shows it as an 82" pop but it is actually a minus 8 on a 90" prop which are all the same blade. The lesson came when one shop said to buy the longer prop at quite a savings and pay the $200 to trim it. That is when we found out that there is no difference in blades with size and there is no reason for a new 82" prop to cost $2k more than its longer brethren. We lucked out and got a deal on a first run prop & had it overhauled to the 82" length. The prop shop overhauled it and as a first run came in light for an overhaul. The McCauley application guide lists all the prop applications so if you press controll F and then type in the prop designation but leave off the -8 it will go down the list and you can quickly see all the aircraft that this model of prop comes off of. McCauley, and others have recommend a dynamic balance on the prop once it is running. Eliminating vibration is good for the engine & prop. Dick Lemmon may have a prop for sale.

As a new comer I may be telling you stuff that has been all ready bounced around which may be annoying.

all the best,
Glenn

Thank you, Glen!

And WELCOME to the TIC170A Discussion Forums! (and that's even if you DID mention Dick Lemmon in your post!)

For convenience, here is a copy of the document you referenced in PDF format. (Note to all: This is a Type Certificate Data Sheet on the TCM IO-360 series engine...but in the European format which provides significantly more information than ordinarily found.):

As "patterg2003" mentioned above, I do have a prop for sale. As a matter of fact, I have three props for sale that are suitable for installation on an IO-360 engine on a C-170. I have two McCauley Kliptip fixed pitch props that came off of miltary T-41 airplanes. One is a 7850 and the other is a 7860. The other prop is a McCauley CS 2 A 34C 203 with new 88" blades. I have stories about all of them.