The International Cessna^® 170 Association

hi folks, just received my ' special ' creds so thought i'd post my first on the site.
i recently purchased a 52 B model with a Delair 180hp conversion, Horton, and a few other mods done to it.
the one item hope to find a bit more info on is the Delair conversion. i only have three pages to it and no info on the parts, systems needed for this STC.
i'm finding my electric Fuel pump isn't working all the time... trips breaker.
is my spelling of Delair correct?
i am just starting my journey into finding all sorts of info on this site. reading up on the Stall warning ... seems to be a common issue.

cheers

Congratulations on the 170!
That 180HP must really make it nice! I'm in the process of putting a 210 on the front of mine.

Del Aire 559-784-9440

Really nice people. They will be able to get you everything you need.

If you do a little searching on the site for engine conversion, lycoming, DelAir ... you'll find a lot of useful data.

Welcome aboard the 170 forum and to the association. You are going to enjoy that new 170 I'm sure. As you know or will soon learn, there is a wealth of information regarding 170's and aviation in general on this site so don't be reluctant to ask questions. Where are you located? Hopefully there may be other Cessna 170's in your area. When you have time to get familiar with the forum post some photos of your 170, inside as well as its exterior. We always like to see what our fellow members planes look like.

Frank

Welcome aboard! Ditto what the other guys said. Sorry, but I can't help you with the fuel pump issue.

When fuel pumps trip breakers...it's time to quit re-setting breakers (which is dangerous) and find out if the pump is drawing too much (usually due to worn out bearings creating excessive drag ....i.e., replace or overhaul the pump).... or if the breaker has lost it's calibration. (not likely but possible... put a new breaker in or install a fast-blo fuse in-line to see if it blows.)

Welcome! The 180hp is great and turns the airplane into a tremendous short field and high altitude performer. Around here you'll find a certain amount of anti-Lycoming bias, but don't listen to those guys. They're just jealous.

The Del-Air conversion is a copy of the Avcon, but with a better cowl nose mod and better documentation. You could probably get a replacement paperwork package if you tell Del-Air the kit number that's installed in your airplane. As already mentioned, there's a lot of Avcon and Del-AIr information on the site. Look in the Library section and you'll probably find what you need.

The electric fuel pump is a 476087, and costs about $75 new from Spruce.

gahorn wrote:When fuel pumps trip breakers...it's time to quit re-setting breakers (which is dangerous) and find out if the pump is drawing too much (usually due to worn out bearings creating excessive drag ....i.e., replace or overhaul the pump).... or if the breaker has lost it's calibration. (not likely but possible... put a new breaker in or install a fast-blo fuse in-line to see if it blows.)

I was always told that if a breaker or fuse pops, you reset it once. If it pops again, it's INOP until the cause is identified and repaired.

bagarre wrote:
I was always told that if a breaker or fuse pops, you reset it once. If it pops again, it's INOP until the cause is identified and repaired.

George has it right. Reset once for everything except fuel related breakers.

I'll go a bit farther and say.... NEVER re-set a circuit breaker in-flight unless it is absolutely REQUIRED to complete the flight.
Example:
If it's a fuel pump...but the engine has another method of delivering fuel ...(gravity, etc.) ...then do NOT re-set the breaker in-flight.

It is NOT correct to assume it's OK to re-set a breaker once.... in-flight. ONLY if it is required to complete the flight.
Another example: A C.B. for a com radio pops on a VFR flight...or if the flight subsequently can be completed in VFR... do NOT reset the breaker. (In fact, ATC will expect the flight to continue as previously cleared...so no panic should be experienced by the pilot at all, ...right?)

In 2007 a Cessna 310 operated by NASCAR suffered a fatal crash due to an electrical fire. The investigation summarized: "The accident crew most likely reset the breaker during the prestart checklist, following pilot’s operating handbook guidance that one reset is allowed."

AOPA's article also commented: "The existing guidance in POHs of the era and training of GA pilots has traditionally allowed one reset of a breaker after it has cooled. Current thinking, backed up by the tragic events here, is that if a breaker trips and it is not critical to flight, do not reset it—even once. More attention must be given to aging wiring by pilots, owners, and maintenance technicians."

Keep in mind that C.B.'s and fuses are purposed to protect the wiring...not the appliance. This means that if the breaker/fuse has popped...then the wiring has already suffered an over-current condition...and may have already been compromised. Think about it: A cut or break in the wring (say, a wire which has dropped onto a fuel line and vibration has rubbed through the wire-insulation) causes a C.B./fuse to "pop".... Does the pilot really know this?
No. He merely knows a breaker popped and thinks about resetting...

This is one of my "pet peeves" at my workplace where, as a simultor I.P. ... I often witness flight crews get into the cockpit and automatically re-set circuit breakers to begin a flight. This is WRONG...and should not have ever been allowed.
If a breaker is found "popped"... maintenance should be notified, the discrepancy corrected, and the records (logbooks) signed for release back to service before the airplane is flown.


Just sayin'....

Real story (video) of a cockpit fire: http://www.aopa.org/AOPA-Live.aspx?watc ... 1418081054

Create a Safety Quiz account, log in and take the Electrical Fire Quiz: http://www.aopa.org/asf/asfquiz/2009/09 ... index.html

Well, i had a reply all drafted and poof, gone.
Thanks for all the info and welcome guys. much appreciated.
When i spoke with the original owner he said he never used the elec fuel pump. it was a problem back then (breaker) but never got resolved. i'll be getting that resolved, hence the need for some paperwork. thanks for the number by the way to Del-Air and the product numbers
one other item that is missing is a fuel pressure gauge. the one that came with the kit (branded Del-Air United Instruments Manifold/Fuel gauge) failed shortly after install, so they removed and just replaced with a Manifold gauge. i do have the original one and it looks like new but am undecided whether to seek out a repair or buy new. have to get this resolved as well.
http://www.unitedinst.com/Products/Mani ... lPressure/

anyway, a couple of pics of panel and that gauge (because i already had a pic of it, but not that interesting)

cheers

That's apparently a pretty simple duplex pressure instrument. I can't immagine how a repair could be very expensive. In fact, it's kind of strange that it failed at all simply because I also can't immagine anything complex about its guts, being both halves operate on very low pressures.

Well first off.... Welcome to us guys, hope we (I) don't drive ya nuts.
I'll guess your fuel pump is a small facet pump, it should be easy to see if it's shorted causing a trip of the breaker. As for your fuel Px gauge, you'll likely be seeing anywhere from 2- 5 psi so that gauge is well maybe not the best. I think you might check and see if there's a restricter in you manifold line.
Lastly if you take too long composing a reply sometimes when you go to post you have to re log in and " poof" goes your stuff.
Again thanks for joining the club

Might as well get this said right away -- Do not ever slip the airplane with full flaps out. It's dangerous. Search the site and read about it.

After that, and much farther down the list, make sure your parking brake is disconnected and remove the tangs from the master cylinder shafts. They have a nasty habit of hanging up and locking one brake or the other.

swixtt wrote:one other item that is missing is a fuel pressure gauge. the one that came with the kit (branded Del-Air United Instruments Manifold/Fuel gauge) failed shortly after install, so they removed and just replaced with a Manifold gauge. i do have the original one and it looks like new but am undecided whether to seek out a repair or buy new. have to get this resolved as well.
http://www.unitedinst.com/Products/ManifoldFuelPressure

anyway, a couple of pics of panel and that gauge (because i already had a pic of it, but not that interesting)
cheers

I had my united combination manifold fuel pressure gauge repaired at Air Tech instrument in Auburn Washington for less than $262.80 dollars and the case was cracked.
Instrument panel has late model Cessna 172 yokes and obviously a Y or U control column in order to have the center stacked radios. I really want to do this to my airplane.
Welcome aboard and Happy flying!
Regards,
Jim

c170b53 wrote:... Lastly if you take too long composing a reply sometimes when you go to post you have to re log in and " poof" goes your stuff. ...

This is a nasty habit of a lot of forums' software. Hit the preview button every couple of minutes and it will keep you logged in. If you've got a fairly long post, copy it to the clipboard in case the submit goes bad. Another option is to compose replies off line, then copy and paste for submittal.