The International Cessna^® 170 Association

In going through our association directory, I find one aircraft in Canada, one in Switzerland, a couple in the UK and Germany, that apparently have United States registry. I'm curious about the reason for that. I would suppose that the pilots thereof would have to have United States pilot certificates in order to fly them. Does anyone know about that?
I immagine it would be kind of difficult to find a CFI over there for a bi-annual.
I've met a number of European pilots and one Australian up in Johnson Creek that have Ameriican licenses and come over here to fly around on vacation.
One French airline captain and his flight attendant wife come over every summer and rent the same C-182 from an FBO over in oregon and tour around for a month every year.
Another Swedish airline captain owns and keeps a Bonanza in Conecticut and does the same thing twice a year: Idaho in the summer and Florida in the winter.
Some guys really know how to live!

It's a lot cheaper to fly around the U.S., not to mention a lot simpler and less hassle to cross U.S. state lines than European borders when flying (although things are much easier on the ground than they used to me).

It is common to keep an airplane on a U.S. registry for Part 91 operations for simple, low-cost maintenance purposes. It's much cheaper to obtain and keep a U.S. pilot certificate current than to put up with all the EASA/JAA B.S. over there. We see a lot of that sort of thing in the corporate airplane market also.

And a few of the airplanes may not actually be in the country their owners live ie their home address, but kept here in the US. I know of at least one 170 in that situation and I know of another Tripacer. The owners come here on holiday and fly their airplanes.

Another thing about our directory. I spend many hours trying to track down every aircraft in the directory to ensure we are presenting the correct model, model year registration, and serial and if known the original registration it left Cessna with. I cross reference every DOT registration I can find on the web. But many countries don't have public registrations. I have to rely on what our members report. So if they give the US registration and it was/is a legitimate aircraft info combination, I print it. This is a tedious time consuming process in about it's 20th hour right now for the next directory. I'm glad at least one person references all the aircraft info in it.

This is real common, mainly due to cost. There is an entire network of FAA licensed mechanics and instructors in Europe to cater to these aircraft and pilots. A lot of them are dual rated (meaning that, for example, they hold both an FAA and EASA license). Unfortunately for them EASA has started cracking down on some of this.

DEM

I believe the only way one can fly as PIC in an aircraft in Europe without possessing an EASA Airman's Certificate is to fly a US-registered aircraft. I recall reading that when reading a Cirrus pilot's blog about touring Europe via GA.

Ryan Smith wrote:I believe the only way one can fly as PIC in an aircraft in Europe without possessing an EASA Airman's Certificate is to fly a US-registered aircraft. I recall reading that when reading a Cirrus pilot's blog about touring Europe via GA.

Not true. I have flown (solo) a British-registered aircraft in England, Ireland, Germany and France. The aircraft is owned by a British friend; I didn't rent it from an FBO. My friend and I are both sticklers on regulations; I'm sure it was completely legal.

jrenwick wrote:

Ryan Smith wrote:I believe the only way one can fly as PIC in an aircraft in Europe without possessing an EASA Airman's Certificate is to fly a US-registered aircraft. I recall reading that when reading a Cirrus pilot's blog about touring Europe via GA.

Not true. I have flown (solo) a British-registered aircraft in England, Ireland, Germany and France. The aircraft is owned by a British friend; I didn't rent it from an FBO. My friend and I are both sticklers on regulations; I'm sure it was completely legal.

Good to know! I assume you don't possess dual citizenship in the UK, John? I'd love to fly around Europe someday.

Ryan Smith wrote:Good to know! I assume you don't possess dual citizenship in the UK, John? I'd love to fly around Europe someday.

I'm not sure what-all my host went through to get it approved. I know he had me named on his insurance, and he wrote to the countries we intended to fly in and got letters of authorization. That was because his airplanes, French SIPA-903s, are "orphaned," i.e. the manufacturer no longer exists, so they're licensed in the U.K. similar to homebuilts (the PFA certifies them). I don't think that would have been necessary for a CAA-certified aircraft.

John, I would't broadcast that. The PIC/crewmember of a foreign registered aircraft must possess the appropriate EASA/JAA license for that aircraft. The same holds true of U.S. registered aircraft....he must possess a U.S. Certificate.
The authorities (usually EASA) must issue at least a temporary which may be based upon your U.S. certificate for limited operations. (This is what BAe did for me when I flew for that mfr'r. It permitted me to operate a G-registered HS125 for the purposes of flight test, delivery and demonstration only. But....YOU SHOULD HAVE DOCUMENTATION ON YOUR PERSON anytime that occurs, so I'm very surprised at your response which indicates you "think" he had some sort of approval. You SHOULD have had a document to the effect on your person when operating.

George, I think maybe we're both right. I last flew in Europe in 2004, and the rules changed in 2012. I don't think I could repeat that experience today. (I did have some documentation besides my pilot license, BTW. I just can't remember the details of what it was.)

http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=2704

It's gotten pretty crazy in Europe since JAA (EASA?) took over things. Some EU countries have begun to issue their own country-only licenses because the European rules have become far too restrictive. I know the U.K. is doing this now.

The EASA rules are new... but the rules merely replicate what has been in place for at least 30 years. My Brit license which was required expired in 1987. My Bermuda license expired in 1989. Those licenses were issued predicated upon rules already in place prior to the 1980s. EASA is merely the "new" European CAA.

gahorn wrote:The EASA rules are new... but the rules merely replicate what has been in place for at least 30 years. My Brit license which was required expired in 1987. My Bermuda license expired in 1989. Those licenses were issued predicated upon rules already in place prior to the 1980s. EASA is merely the "new" European CAA.

OK, I'll ask my British host how I was able to do that.

Well, I found my records from 2002, the first time I flew PIC in Europe. My host made enquiries with the British CAA, and had an email from someone in CAA Licensing Operations stating that

"Holders of a valid in every respect and unrestricted ICAO issued pilot's licence, are entitled to operate UK (G) registered single pilot aeroplanes daytime under VMC in VFR in UK Airspace. If this pilot wants to cross an FIR boundary in a UK registered aeroplane into a third party country then written confirmation must be sought from that country's National Aviation Authority."

My host had the required letters from France, Germany and Switzerland. France was no problem, but Germany and Switzerland wanted money for it, if I remember right.

I wouldn't be surprised if it's all different today. 2002 was before the JAA really started to change European aviation arrangements.

Your U.S. Pilot's certificate is not a license.

(But I agree, the rules have likely changed. The airplanes I've typically been flying uner foreign registrations are large aircraft not single-pilot, nor day/vfr.)

gahorn wrote:Your U.S. Pilot's certificate is not a license....

As Shaw said, two peoples separated by a common language.

Anyway, one probably shouldn't assume it's not possible to fly in Europe with a US certificate -- instead, ask the country's aviation authority what's allowed.

In reaction to the EASA rules, which have to satisfy the most conservative governments in the EU, there's starting to be a return to the kind of "anarchy" that existed before. For instance, you can no longer get a European private pilot license with the equivalent of our 3rd class medical exam -- they only have what we would call Class I and Class II medicals. England, finding this and other EASA regulations too restrictive, has begun issuing an England-only private pilot license for VFR operations in light aircraft. That requires only that your personal physician certify that you're in good health, just as would be required for a commercial driver's license (think bus driver). But that pilot license is only valid for flights within the U.K., unless other countries choose to recognize it. It's a pretty fluid situation right now.