The International Cessna^® 170 Association

Well, N4179V is finally home in PAO (Palo Alto). I'm quite pleased with the decision to get a C170, and since this one was so well refinished it's quite the head turner.

I do have the usual acquisition hiccups to work through

- CHT gauge is not working properly
- DG needs more clearance on the adjustment knob
- left tank empties much faster than right (too much faster)
- Carb Heat temperature gauge is interimittent

These are all well addressed elsewhere (thank you), but there are two item that I cannot find other guidance on. The airplane has a 6" Maule tailwheel that was installed 5-6 years ago, and I plan to replace it with a Scott 3200A (Husky) Tailwheel. In the meantime, the plane is very hard to steer right without using differential brakes for assistance. This is not a weathervaning artifact, it happens on calm wind days. As you can imagine the landings have been a bit adventurous given this limitation. Per discussion with Maule owners, the chains on this particular tailwheel are supposed to have different tension to avoid shimmy, and that's the case with my airplane. Any advice/guidance is appreciate, since the Scott wheel won't be in stock for a few months.

The other item is replacing the fuses with circuit breakers. I ... would like to upgrade the fuses, too. This is such a simple task, I am curious what paperwork/authorization is required. Can I do it under the guidance of my AP with his IA approval (I'm an electrical engineer so it's not outside my domain).

Lastly, I'm curious as to the motivation to put unequal fuel tanks in the aircraft. I'm sure the cross feeding is designed correctly (I plan to check the vent lines, siphon lines and screens to address the burn rate issues), but it still seems unorthodox, almost a cost savings measure. I like the discussion of the fuel tank risers and will definitely be looking into those as options before winter weather sets in.

Richard

N4179V is a '48 170 model, if my info is correct. (It's a fabric wing, ...right?)
The original airplane was developed from the Cessna 140 and the design of the fuel system reflectst that. Since the C-145 engine needed more fuel capacity the simple expedient was to add a Cessna 140 tank to the right side. (That's why your fuel level appears to empty the left faster than the right....because at 7.5-8 gph consumption, that represents a greater percentage of fuel capacity from the left side. I'd guess it appears to drain about twice as fast as the right? )
Some ragwing owners have opted to add an additional tank to the left side to gain the extra fuel and to resolve a mental imbalance.
Cessna didn't see it that way, since most flights are made with only the left seat occupied.
The Maule tailwheel usually had different "frequency" springs on one side vs the other, ...not actual spring tension or chain-length differences.
I suggest you adjust that to equal length/tensions.
You can do any work yourself that your AP/IA will sign off on under his supervision. I suggest you get his complete involvment before you actually perform any work, especially with regard to actual materials/methods he'll approve. (Don't go out and buy any automotive wiring and connectors just yet.)
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Welcome to 170 ownership!!

Richard,
Welcome to the Club and 170 ownership!! I bought mine in May and have enjoyed for over 80 flight hours already. I live up in Grass Valley (O17), if you get up into the foothills, give me a call/e-mail. I'm planning to take my boys airplane camping 23-24 October up near Redding (weather permitting). If you're a camper come join us. Anyone else in the area want to join in on the campout? It's a Thur-Fri, I'm working weekends now so those are my days off.

Mike, weather & schedules permitting I might just join y'all. We normally get 2-3 camping trips per year, but have only had one this year (the airplane purchase took a whole bunch of free time Are you camping at the field?

George, thank you, too for the kind reply. A whole world of discoveries for me, to be sure. Any guidance on flushing the fuel system? I still get a bit of grunge out of the sump drains, and would like to get a definitive flush if such can be had.

All - the Jasco Alternator is a dream. It takes a few spots for the switches & circuit breaker, but I'm pleased to have major amperage even at low RPM.

Richard

Richard, I don't know what comprises the "grunge" you're getting but at the risk of atomic attack I'll say this: I made the mistake of storing my emergency generator with autofuel in it.
I tried to give it it's annual startup and oil change last weekend. It wouldn't start.
The gascolator was full of what looked like "lime" crusts,...the sort of thing found in the bottom of electric hot water heaters. It was packed solid. So was the carb bowl. I thought the carb body (aluminum) so corroded internally I wouldn't be able to save it.
The gas tank had been filled with 2 1/2 gallons of autogas about last winter. I drained over 2 cups of water-contaminated fuel out of it, and the remaining varnish would not run in my lawn mower. It had absorbed so much water and deteriorated so badly I've resorted to mixing it with herbicide to spray on mesquite sprouts on the runway to kill them. (I normally use diesel as a mixer, but this seemed a good way to dispose of the soured fuel.)
Point being, I don't know what the previous owner had in those tanks, and I don't know how long it sat there. It may take a long time to get rid of the stuff. Believe it or not, the best stuff to use to flush the tanks may be autogas, because it is 1, cheap, and 2, likely to dissolve anything soluble in there. If you find some with alcohol in it then it'll remove water as well, but will also risk damaging carb seals and hoses. (Do not allow the flushing-fuel to remain in the tanks more than a few hours. Rock the wings vigorously several times.) I'd begin by disconnecting the fuel line at the gascolator and arrange a drain-bucket at the gascolator and not allow any flushing-fuel into the carb. Drain the carb bowl seperately. There's doubtless some grunge in there as well. (Small square plug at rear of bowl, then run some fresh fuel through it.) Personally, if it were mine, I would then use the flushing-fuel in my tractor, or something. Not only because I prefer avgas in my airplane, but also because we know it to be contaminated with whatever we've just dissolved. (In other words, even if you're predisposed to use autogas in your airplane, after using some to flush the tanks I would dispense with it elsewhere and start over with fresh fuel in the airplane.)
This entire description is ad hoc. I've never done it and only tried to offer an idea on how to flush your tanks in a safe way. (And keep a fire extinquisher handy and do this outdoors far away from the hangar.)

BTW, I have usually stored that thing with avgas in it, but the lead in that fuel was causing spark plug fouling and stuck the exhaust valve. (I had not used TCP. Don't ask me why. Brain failure, I guess.) But this last winter I stored it with autogas and Stabil fuel stabilizer. I won't do that ever again.
Now that I've wasted a day overhauling the carb and cleaning the tank and system with autofuel, it's stored with avgas and TCP.

"K A B O O M" (Sound of atomic attack) Just Kidding George!! No wonder you dislike mogas. That crap they sell in Texas is nasty stuff!! 2 cups of water in 2.5 gallons, man it's a wonder you guys get around at all even in your cars. Then to try to run the remaining varnish thru your lawn mower shows you hate lawn mowers as much as I do!

Bruce

George,it's your own fault for contaminating that fine car gas with Stabil! You should only add Mystery Oil & even then,only while doing the hokey-pokey & chanting the sacred mantra--"cargas,cargas,sis-boom-bah"!

Eric

At the Island for the last ten years I have been storing all my generators, motorcycles, mowers, outboards, etc with avgas over the Winter 7 months while we are gone. They ALWAYS start first kick, pull, crank or whatever in the Spring.

For the cars with catalytic converters I need to use Stabil which seems to work ok, but the avgas works for several years of not running. I once had a friend give me two drums of avgas that sat in a shed for maybe five years. It seemed like it was really fresh from smelling, feeling and whatever after all that time so I used it in my 180 figuring if the octane had dropped off some from 100LL it wouldn't hurt. Ran fine. I'm a true avgas man when the fuel isn't going to be used within a month or two.

N3243A wrote:"K A B O O M" (Sound of atomic attack) Just Kidding George!! No wonder you dislike mogas. That crap they sell in Texas is nasty stuff!! 2 cups of water in 2.5 gallons, man it's a wonder you guys get around at all even in your cars. Then to try to run the remaining varnish thru your lawn mower shows you hate lawn mowers as much as I do!

Bruce

Ha! Yeah, it was pretty disgusting when I found it. There wasn't 2 cups of pure water, but it was about 2 cups of fuel with incredible amounts of water bubbles so mixed into it that it appeared almost milky.
(and Eric, I guess I need to request a recording of the melody. Do you think you can do a Windows Media Player file for me to download? I did use some MMO in it, and when I decided to store it for a while I also added the Stabil. But I confess, I never sang the song or did the dance. A video file would be so helpful. Perhaps you might make some money by selling it like Larry Bartlett does his taildragger series? I know I'd certainly pay to see it!)

The plan is to camp at Hyampon (Q75) and maybe do a "fun fly" down to Gravelly Valley at some point. I haven't been to either one but I've heard from others that their kind of neat places to go. I think I will take off the wheel pants for this trip though.