gahorn wrote:wingnut wrote:I would advise anyone expecting their 170 to fly on its 100th birthday to start hoarding engine parts.....
Surely that is an anecdote about your
well-deserved airframe capabilities rather than a true belief engine parts are endangered.
This engine is one of the most numerous (numbering in the tens-of-thousands) ever built (exceeded only by some military-application engines like the P&W 1830s) and I seriously doubt that anyone reading these forums need to hoard parts to keep one running. The Franklins are a much more endangered engine (absolutely NO cranks available.)
The O-300 cases and sumps are actually quite numerous, despite the occasional story someone is having a nightmare about their sump. The cranks and cams and gears and cylinders/etc. are all quite available for the next 100 years. (If a Kinner or Ranger or OX5 or etc etc can still be rebuilt I have little concern about the availability of O-300 parts.)
Then there are the conversion possibilities.
Yes, price is always an issue, but these engines are not yet in the "collectable" category. In fact, that is one of the reasons the Cessna 170 is a real value in classic airplanes... It's maintainability.
George,
My plan is to retire my 'CB' handle, "wingnut", and reintroduce myself as "Buzzkill".
This is certainly a topic I'd prefer to be wrong on, and very well could be. Parts procurement is something I do everyday. Of course my experience is primarily aircraft structures, but I do speak with many engine shops. You have an optimistic view and that's good.
I agree these series engines have not attained collector status. They have reached the status of being an early version of engines that TCM (now CMI) has dropped continued support. The 470 series is a later design that is treated like a red headed step child. I admit my advice could be premature, but it is grounded with an historical record of what happens rather quickly when companies and inventories consolidate under one umbrella. The bean counters have decided it best to make 10 sales at $1,000 each, rather than 1,000 sales at $10 or $50 each. You will soon see this with "old" engines parts inventories. The 'hoarders' will be in the catbird seat, and the OEM's have little interest competing to keep a 70+ year old design flying. It'll happen as it has with airframe parts, and there is more commonality among similar airframes than there is with engines.
Hate to sound like a Debbie downer, but this industry is changing rapidly. If you watch it closely you will notice near zero newly birthed companies coming in to support old design on a grand scale. The few that have tried get "AD'd" out of business, or bought out.
If you are suggesting there is some massive stockpiles of C145/O-300 parts out there, I will not dispute that, but I will say if such exist those parts will share the same fate as the airframe parts have; they will be looked upon as an investment and bought up by a few (very few) hoarders. These parts can be bought at exponentially increasing prices until they are gone.
It's easier for me and other structures shops to local fab a bulkhead or compound curvature cowling skin, that are no longer available than it is for an engine shop to local fab a cam gear, or sump, or mount leg (speaking of mount legs, do you know the price of the bolts that clamp the unique shock mounts in cost? $178 each. 8 bolts per installation).
My advice to cabbage on to engine parts if you can; just saying if you can, and you have a desire to fly your original Cessna 170* on her 100th birthday, right now is the best time you'll ever have to insure you can reasonably afford to do so.
My advice is not for myself, nor for those very wealthy and of age to see that day. My advice is for the average Cessna 170 owner, with average means to support their habit, who is of an age they could and would.........fly when that future birthdate celebration arrives.
)