The International Cessna^® 170 Association

As many have read in the thread I started titled "Ethanol, another nail in the coffin of GA" http://cessna170.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3421 you know that about 3 weeks ago now my world of mogas went away unexpectedly on the arrival of ethanol blended gas at my gas station.

Ethanol in mogas for airplanes is not allowed under any circumstance under the nearly all STCs in aircraft for those unaware.

It would seem that this change was federally mandated yet it appeared through my research at the time that no one knew about it. At least no person or organization in my circle of aviation was talking about it.

I brought up the subject here to see what others around the country in the 170 world knew about it. And hopefully relieve some of my frustration.

Well yesterday (Monday) I happened upon the federal bill or mandate that made this happen and along with a conversation with a representative of the EAA auto fuel department who made the bill understandable. So I think I have a handle on it.

Here is what happened and why some of you are scratching your heads saying "we don't have ethanol in our gas what the heck is Bruce talking about".

In simple terms it is the Clean Air Bill passed in the 1990 or there about that mandates oxygenated fuel be used in some areas of the country in order to reduce pollution. If you live in one of these areas, which is quite small when the entire US is considered **, you will recall that we have a winter blended gas and a summer blended gas. This is actually called Reformulated Gas. It has been around so many years that we probably have forgotten all about it.

**(see this link for the areas required to use reformulated gas. http://www.epa.gov/otaq/rfg/whereyoulive.htm)

There are several kinds of oxygenaters but the 2 that are at all practical and available are MTBE and Ethanol (alcohol). MTBE because of many issues with alcohol was the chemical of choice.

Here is the problem. MTBE has been linked with water contamination. So for some time know the EPA backed by congress has mandated (in very small print it seems) that at the winter to summer gas change over (May 1 to May 5th) MTBE would not longer be expectable as oxygenater in the fuel for these special areas of the country. This only left the oil companies with ethanol as an oxygenater. This law was probably enacted several years ago and was just sitting there ticking like a time bomb silently out of the public eye TILL NOW.

So where do we stand. Well as it turns out ethanol when burned in car gas has less BTUs and so we get poorer gas mileage meaning you will have to burn more fuel to go the same distance. More burned full means more air pollution. Ethanol also burns dirtier that gas with out it so the pollution is even more. Because of the added pollution the states of California, New York and Connecticut so far have gotten a waiver and will not be using ethanol. I’m not sure whether they will continue to use MTBE or just not oxygenate the fuel at all. All states have this option but have not exercised it yet to my knowledge.

The EAA rep told me that the EAA and the AOPA because of the way this went into effect, not being in the public eye till it happened, were caught a little off guard. He said they are formulating a joint response which will become public shortly, and will probably ask for a blanket waiver which offers some sort of compromise along the lines that had been propose in the individual states Like Washington and Wisconsin that had considered mandatory ethanol separate to the Clean Air Act.

That waiver being that premium fuel be exempt from the inclusion of an oxygenater requirement (the addition of ethanol) or the continued use of MTBE be allowed in those areas covered by the Clean Air Act. At least until a more suitable oxygenater than ethanol can be found.

This would give those of us stuck well inside these areas at least a source of ethanol free fuel for not only our airplanes but our lawn mowers, boats, snowmobiles antique cars and all sorts of various tools and toys that have engines that will be damaged by ethanol.

The EAA rep also said that the EAA will be reviewing the possibility of getting a change to their STCs to allow some ethanol but wouldn’t elaborate further.

So for now if I want to run mogas in my 170, I have to drive an additional 10 miles past the airport from my house. This will take me into the next county that isn’t required to oxygenate their fuel in hopes to fill up my 33 gallon tank in the back of my pickup with ethanol free fuel and haul it back to the airport.

I think I need to double the size of the my 33 gallon tank.

NOTE: I do not profess to be an expert in the Clean Air Act, fuel additives such as MTBE or Ethanol, so the above information is offered as I, a laymen, understands it. Corrections are very welcome.

The State of California has outlawed the use of MTBE in gasoline due to ground water contamination. All of the auto fuels I have tested check out at 5% alcohol, which has beem federally mandated to improve air quality. I have been unable to determine any operating differences in either my automobiles or in my airplane.
It is my opinion that people are overly concerned about the present situaion.

Thanks BL your right I miss typed.

The following link is a EPA final rule which I believe says the California is not REQUIRED to oxygenate their fuel. Since MTBE is outlawed in CA they would by the process of elimination have had to use ethanol. Now they don't, but can.

It's all so simple to understand.

q=cache:1PoNq2v4l8QJ:www.sigma.org/pdf/SFX5EF.pdf+ethanol+Ca ... =clnk&cd=6

I suspect the "Supermarket to the World", Archer-Daniels-Midland (ADM) has something to do with this. (I was going to say "up to their 'ears' in this... but it's too serious to joke about.) ('ears' -- of corny)

Bruce,

I beleive your discussion on MTBE, Ethanol and oxygenated fuel is correct and I don’t want ethanol in my airplane. I do have the itch to take issue with the following statement.

This would give those of us stuck well inside these areas at least a source of ethanol free fuel for not only our airplanes but our lawn mowers, boats, snowmobiles antique cars and all sorts of various tools and toys that have engines that will be damaged by ethanol.

I don’t believe ethanol will damage any of these engines. We have been buying 10% blended Ethanol gasoline for more than 20 years and burn it in all the following without any trouble or performance issues.

3 Atvs-1979, 1984, 2006 models
SkiDoo and Polaris snowmobiles
2004 Toyota 4 Runner
3 Honda engines-5.5, 11, 18 HP
Briggs and Stratton engines-5.5, 14.5 HP
2 chain saws
1930 chevy coupe
1942 chevy pickup
1970 chevy C50
1975 chevy pickup
1994 Ford F250
Jiffy ice auger
IH-A and Ferguson tractors-1940s
1950s JD 520
1994 garden tractor
3 Weed eaters

If I walk around the farm I'm sure I can find more. No wonder I'm always changing oil and buying batteries.

I guess we have become so used to ethanol that we don't think about it. When I buy fuel, I call our supplier, tell him how much I want and he brings ethanol without us even talking about it.

I understand not wanting to put it in an airplane. I don't want to either.

The dollars being spent in the ethanol industry today are more powerful in Washington DC than yours or mine. ADM, Cargill, Bill Gates, and the energy industry have more power in DC than the EAA and AOPA combined. Ethanol blended fuel is here to stay. But I do believe we will have a fuel source for GA.

Does MTBE pollute our water? If Ethanol gets into ground water does it not contaminate the water? Is man himself good for ground water? Where does it end?

I forgot two boat motors.

I know mogas is car gas, but where does this term mogas come from?

Bill

Bill, I am sure you are correct that "burning" the ethanol-laced fuel in utility-type engines is relatively harmless. But I have some experience that has been unpleasant with regard to the seasonal use of those engines and ethanol-laced fuel.
My Honda generator, pressure-washer, several Briggs/Stratton-powered units (pumps, etc.) and only this spring...my garden tiller, have ALL had their carburetors ruined by ethanol. Typically, the modern carburetors are made of alloy which severely corrodes during idle periods when they've been used with ethanol. It's amazing the amount of crust and porous-hole-damage and ruined gaskets and pump diaphragms that only one season sitting in storage can do. And carbs for toys are expensive! When they are holed by corrosion they can no longer be repaired/rebuilt. $190 for the little generator!
(The cast-iron Marvel-Schebler on the 1939 Ford tractor doesn't seem to care tho'.)
Yet I hate to use avgas in them because of the lead issues on valves (I've had stuck valves* in the generator and tiller due to avgas), but for seasonal storage, that's now become my preactice: Use avgas in them their last operational period, and then leave it in there for storage.
Like you, I've got too many toys with engines to properly drain/preserve them... they are too numerous to deal with in that regard. (Just put the boat back in the water last weekend for the first time since last August.... or was that August 2005 ? ... don't recall exactly.) Avgas was in it, and it started right up after about 5 seconds of cranking.
Ethanol is bad news for most of our toys. Wish there was a filter to remove it. Meanwhile, I might invest in a couple of marine-type water-seperator fuel filters.

*- In a related matter, I first considered tring the "rope trick" on them, but that wouldn't work because they are side-valve engines. There's no way to get the piston to press against the rope and compress it against the valve. Good thing too! It took vise-grips, lots of penetrating oil, and lots of twisting on the head of those valves to get them to even rotate in their guides. Lots more juice and twisting finally got some vertical movement in the guide. I thought for a while I was going to lose the guide and valve completely because of the force, and galling that must be going on. They were really corroded to their stems/guides.
But it all worked out, and WD40/RustRemover/PB Blaster/magic-words finally got 'em running again.
Moral: Spray oil during shutdown/storage, remove/drain all fuel (or store with avgas), store it on a compression stroke if single cylinder, plug intakes/exhausts against humid atmosphere, and support anti-ethanol movements.

bluedr hinted on how to remove ethanol from fuel - add a little water shake and the phases seperate. fuel + entanol/water mixture. Then drain off the bad stuff. There are better ways of doing this, with other substances besides water and shaking but the process is similar.

In these process you add a second substance/organic that renders the stuff in solution insoluable, it is mixed and the stuff and other substances are removed. These process are widely used in the petrochemical industries and in the film industry. Kodak developer is one example of such a substance. (pprobably won't work for ethanol)

A chemical engineer can provide a safe/cost effective method to remove the ethanol. I've seen it done with other organic solutions, but don't know the specifics of ethanol separations.

The Idaho Legislature had a bill pending this past session on mandating ethanol in fuels. This bill did not pass, even the rider to the bill of allowing ethanol blended low octane fuels and unblended premium fuels did not pass. Numerious groups fought against it, including the EAA/AOPA and various other special interests.

Bill and George I'm sure you are both right about the utility engines. You will also find pro and con on the internet.

Bill your first hand knowledge using ethanol has much more credance with me than reading either a pro or con advicates info. I've even quoted your experiance to friends of mine.

George's story unfortunatly holds the same credability with me so unfortunity untill I hear more Bill stories than George stories I'd like to have a source of ethanol free gas.

As for distilling ethanol gas by mixing it with water then draining of the water/ethanol to remove the ethanol, that seemed like a perfect solution to me. I just had to figure out how to shake about 30 gallons of gas and 3 gallons of water. Then what would I do with the approxamitly 4.5 gallons of ethanol laced water.

How ever a friend who is a chemical engineer for an oil company (he is in the chemical cleanup area) told me that it wasn't that easy and I wouldn't get the results I was looking for.
To be far he was pressed for this answer with no time for thought so I'm sure it might have been a conservative one.

I plan to press him on the subject in the near future after he has had some time to think about it.

I just had to figure out how to shake about 30 gallons of gas and 3 gallons of water. Then what would I do with the approxamitly 4.5 gallons of ethanol laced water

Bruce, It seems that the price of the mogas would start to get pretty close to some of the 100LL once you get the ethanol out.

Walt your right except that I don't pay myself for my time.

Mogas today can be had for $2.99, 100LL at my base airport is $4.24. I can find 100LL for about $4.00 if I hunt and fly around.

N9149A wrote:Walt your right except that I don't pay myself for my time.

Mogas today can be had for $2.99, 100LL at my base airport is $4.24. I can find 100LL for about $4.00 if I hunt and fly around.

Out here on the left coast it's a bit different. Mogas went from 3.32 to 3.42 YESTERDAY. 100LL is still 3.85 at KTSP, and 3.45 down at California City.

Miles

The fling W gives 10 cents per gallon off on tuesdays. Ocean City NJ has had the cheapest I've seen the last couple of times I've been there. It's been several weeks since but they were 3.43 the "W" was 3.95 and South Jersey was 4.24 on that day. It doesn't pay to go for gas but when I see it cheaper I get it.

Bruce,
I have no idea where you got your information on the gas in California not having alcohol (Ethanol) in it, but it is dead wrong. Every branded and unbranded fuel I've tested since the banning of MTBE has checked out at 5% alcohol. Methanol is not used. Ethanol is.
I'm sure you all know how the test for alcohol is made, that is ---in a graduated test tube using 10% water and 90% gasoline which is thoroughly shaken and then allowed to settle out, If it settles out to 15%, you have pretty close to 5% alcohol.
Apparently some guys thought I was serious when I recommended pouring water in the fuel tanks and then shaking the airplane and allowing it to settle out. Come on, fellas! I've been flying for sixty-three years. You don't fly that long doing that sort of foolishness.
"Flying on Mogas is not fot the timid."

Bruce, I think Walt has a valid point.
40 gals of mogas at $3/gal equals $120. Drain away 4 gallons of water polluted with ethanol and you throw away $16. You therefore have 36 gallons of fuel you paid $120 for, which equals $3.53 per gallon. Paying $3.53/gal to replace the 4 gallons you drained off adds another $14.12 to the cost of the total 40 gallons, total cost of 40 gallons now being $132.12. Add to that, the EPA disposal costs of the polluted water and all your trouble, and $4/gal for avgas doesn't sound too bad any more. (It's only $17 saved over $4 avgas tho', for a lot more trouble and the problem of what to do with the water. Let it evaporate I guess.)
Being an engineer I'll bet Miles can quickly determine the percentage increase in total direct operating expenses the use of avgas now equals when compared to mogas...but I'll bet it's in the single-digit percent... probably well off-set by the mx difference issues.
I'll just keep burning non-ethanol avgas and enjoy the view. I'm not going to let them destroy my happiness over this.

The other day while filling the car I became really frustrated to see over $3 at the pump for ordinary autogas. That was a 10-cent jump in price over the weekend. Then it occured to me that it was only a 3% price increase, so I calmed down. sorta. a little bit. (The only comfort I find in all this is that every price increase is a smaller and smaller percentage the higher the price gets.) The 28 dollars more per tankful I spend on my airplane for a fillup is not going to make me give up my Cessna 170. But it might make me re-think whether or not my grandkids are going to enjoy it if I leave it to them in the will.

PS- I don't claim to be a mathematician or accountant. If I was any good at determining such things, I'd never have bought a plane, a boat, or taken an interest in women.