The International Cessna^® 170 Association

Every once in a while, we might want to perform our own "ramp checks" just to belay any problems that might have become so familiar to ourselves that we accept shortcomings.
The other day, while right-seating in the Hawker 1000 sim for an FAA Inspector who was getting recurrent, I came to think of my temporary pilot's certificate which had been issued in August. Temporary's only have a 120 day validity. I asked the Inspector to issue an "emergency" certificate (good for 30 days) while the gals up in OKC get their work done. (They claimed to have sent out my new, permanent certificate back in October, but my training facility actually had a letter from them requesting a correction on the application which was delaying issueance.)
Check yourselves. (Not YOU FlyGuy! THAT'S NOT WHAT I MEAN!)

george
do you have a link
that describes what
a normal ramp check
consists of?
i had read an article
in an old flying magazine
but in almost 40yrs of flying,
have never been checked.
thanks
dave

I was ramp-checked many years ago in Honolulu. While there were many reasons the airplane would not have passed an airworthiness inspection (as I later learned), the FAA inspector dinged me only on paperwork: I had an expired airworthiness certificate (they used to issue those with expiration dates), and the airplane was missing its data plate and compass correction card. The GADO simply issued me a new airworthiness certificate; Piper sent me a data plate (they used to do that), and I must have gotten a mechanic to give me a compass correction card.

I guess with some ramp checks, it's all about the paperwork: AROW!

You might have guessed that I once bought a project without knowing it was a project. That was in 1971, and I'm still flying that J3, since restored.

By the way, I have an Excel spreadsheet that prints a nicely formatted, easy-to-read compass correction card, here: http://members.iphouse.com/jkr/Ccard.xls. You're welcome to use it, modify it, pass it along, what ever you want.

Best Regards,

John

I'll give a word of advice: Do NOT carry your aircraft logbooks in your aircraft. If you are ramp-checked and the logs are available, the inspector may require you to produce them. (Only carry your aircraft logs aboard the aircraft if the aircraft is going to crash on the next flight and the aircraft is going to completely burn up.)

Pay close attention to the pilots that are required to carry their pilot-logbooks on each flight.

Also, the AOPA article (below) has made an error in their list of documents required to be onboard. The "operating handbook" (Owner's Manual) is NOT required to be onboard. BUT... they are correct about the AFM,.... the Approved Flight Manual (AFM) IS! The Cessna 170 AFM is a one-page, two-sided document, specific to the particular model (170/170A/170B) and MUST be carried onboard the aircraft. If you don't have one, Cessna will sell you one for a bunch of money. Or, if you are a TIC170A Member, you can simply get one from headquarters for the price of photocopy. (Your membership just paid for itself.) I keep my AFM copy folded up and in the same pouch as the Airworthiness Cert., Registration Cert., and my Wt & Bal/Equipment LIst is kept there too.

The charts should be current (or you may have electronic charts if they are current), and the ELT battery will not be accessed if tools are required to get to it. (No disassembly of the aircraft is required during a ramp-check.) The VOR check should be logged every 30 days and kept in a record aboard the aircraft. The equipment list/wt & bal should be up-to-date (no obvious equipment differences than that listed... like different radios, or wheelpants, etc.), and your seatbelts should have TSO datatags that are legible and permanently attached to each belt.

It's also possible that, if the inspector is knowlegeable or has a type certificate data sheet handy, he might look for baggage compartment, fuel selector, compass correction, and operating limitation (usually on the glove box door and instrument markings) placards.

You are also required to have a gov't-issued photo I.D., your Pilot's Certificate (we don't have licenses in the U.S.) and your valid medical certificate. (In fact, these particular items must be presented to any law enforcement officer, judge, justice, magistrate, or Transportation Security Administration or State Dept. official who asks for them. You don't have to let them hold them. You only have to display them when requested.)

Final word to the wise: Have an important appointment to get to. Soon. Be polite. Do not get conversational. Do not get chatty. (Do not answer questions that weren't asked.) Answer only the questions asked. Thank him when he's finished. Say goodbye to the nice man and walk away.


http://www.aopa.org/members/files/topics/rmpcheck.html
provides the following information about ramp checks:
===========================

Ramp Checks
Pilots are expected to conduct flights safely and remain in compliance with the Federal Aviation Regulations. The FAA conducts "ramp checks" to ensure pilots maintain these expectations. Though generally straightforward, some ramp checks end up with enforcement actions against the pilot. This subject report provides guidance and suggestions on how to properly handle an FAA ramp check.

A typical check involves the inspection of the pilot's airman and medical certificates and aircraft paperwork and an exterior inspection of an aircraft. The inspector may use a "Job Aid" during the inspection; this aid helps demystify the expectations. A cooperative and diplomatic attitude will usually result in a positive ramp inspection.

An FAA ramp check may occur when an inspector:

Observes an unsafe operation in the traffic pattern or in the ramp.
Is notified by ATC of an unsafe operation.
Conducts normal surveillance.
The typical ramp inspection for most noncommercial operations is during normal surveillance. The aviation safety inspector will usually present identification before conducting a ramp inspection. If you suspect you are subject of a ramp inspection and the individual does not present identification, you may ask for it, and the inspector is required to present it.

The check basically involves a review of the airman and the aircraft. The findings from both are usually noted on the FAR Part 91 Ramp Inspection Job Aid.

The inspector is not authorized to detain you if it means missing a flight or making an engagement. They may only keep you long enough to check the required paperwork.

If requested, the pilot is required to present his or her pilot and medical certificates and, if applicable, the logbook. Logbooks are required for the following flights:

Student pilots are required to carry logbooks on all solo cross-country flights.
Sport pilots are required to carry logbooks or other evidence of required instructor endorsements on all flights.
Recreational pilots are required to carry logbooks with required instructor endorsements on all solo flights that exceed 50 nm from the airport at which the training was received; within the airspace that requires communication with ATC; between sunset and sunrise; or in an aircraft for which the pilot is not appropriately rated in the category and class.
Flight instructors with sport pilot ratings must carry their logbooks or other evidence of endorsements on all flights when providing flight training.
All other pilots are advised to keep their logbooks at home. Don't be alarmed if the inspector begins noting this information on his Job Aid. Presenting the documentation is required but not physically releasing the documents.

The pilot certificate is inspected to ensure the airman has the proper certificate and ratings for operations conducted, such as instrument operations requiring an instrument rating on the pilot's certificate. The medical is checked for proper class; conducting commercial operations requires at least a second class medical. If applicable, the logbook will be checked for records of currency (e.g., flight review, instrument currency, and landings and takeoffs for passengers).

The inspector is not authorized to board your aircraft without the knowledge of the crew. They may inspect the exterior and look through windows.

The inspector is authorized to inspect:

The airworthiness certificate.
The aircraft registration.
The operating handbook.
The weight and balance information.
The minimum equipment list (if applicable).
Aeronautical charts (if applicable).
The general airworthiness of the aircraft.
The ELT battery.
A VOR check.
The seats/safety belts.
AOPA suggests cooperating with the inspectors, and the following may help reduce the time and scope of the inspection:

Be courteous and cooperative.
Be busy; FAA inspectors are not authorized to delay you for any great length of time.
Do not volunteer more information than is absolutely required.
Keep in an easily referenced location at least the following information:
Your medical and pilot certificate.
Logbook (only for student pilots).
Airworthiness certificate (displayed at the cabin or cockpit entrance (91.203).
Aircraft registration.
Approved flight manual or operating handbook.
Weight and balance data.
Current charts appropriate for flight (VFR and IFR).
If the ramp check is due to a possible violation, anything you say or do may be used against you.

If you have enrolled in AOPA's Legal Services Plan, call AOPA's Pilot Information Center at 800/USA-AOPA immediately. The consequences for even minor infractions can be far more serious than you might think. If you have not enrolled in AOPA's Legal Services Plan, call AOPA to speak with an aviation specialist about how best to proceed.

For more information, read FAA Order 8700.1, Chapter 56, Conduct A FAR Part 91 Ramp Inspection and AOPA's Overview of FAA Enforcement.
=============================

An excellent article from the AOPA Legal Counsel on a ramp check is:
http://www.aopa.org/members/files/pilot ... c9605.html

Unless the inspector thinks there is something wrong with your airplane most likely they will ask to see your license and medical. As for the airplane they will look to see the airworthiness certificate and perhaps ask for your aircraft registration. That is it.

More than that usually takes more thought for the particular situation by the inspector. Some times they have something on their mind, perhaps something new they just learned should be in or on every aircraft.

Some things they do know you need are a compass correction card and the seat belts need data tags so these are favorite things and easy for them to see with a quick inspection from the outside of the aircraft.

I've been ramp checked several times at work. When ramp checked I usually try to distance myself from any aircraft I might be flying. Less for the inspector to look at or me to accidental show him. I also make myself appear to be busy so the inspector won't take much of my time. I'm professional and courteous but I don't offer any information about anything that is not specifically asked and then less is better.

All good advice. I once stopped a armed robbery suspect not far from the scene of the crime. The poor old woman working behind the counter could not psitively ID the suspect. So, I walked up to the suspect in the back seat of my patrol car and off handedly asked him, "is that the lady you robbed?". He, without thinking, stated, "yea that's her".

Case closed.

A fish would never get caught if he kept his mouth shut.

gahorn wrote:A fish would never get caught if he kept his mouth shut.

Yeah, but he'd die of starvation!

John

I once had an AI tell me that the FAR's require aircraft to have compass correction cards. However, it was his position that the compass correction card "did not" have to be prominently displayed (it could be anywhere in the aircraft--glove box, etc.) and it did not have to have corrections noted on the card. You just have to have the card in the plane. Any truth to this?

170C wrote:I once had an AI tell me that the FAR's require aircraft to have compass correction cards. However, it was his position that the compass correction card "did not" have to be prominently displayed (it could be anywhere in the aircraft--glove box, etc.) and it did not have to have corrections noted on the card. You just have to have the card in the plane. Any truth to this?

I doubt any FSDO Inspector would be willing to be labelled so stupid as to accept that definition. It's a placard and should be posted where the pilot can see it in flight. It should be calibrated so as to approximate the conditions to be expected in normal flight. (Radios On, Gear up/down depending on type, etc. etc.) Any unusual compass errors should also be placarded in view of the pilot. (Most K-Airs placard their their air conditioners, for example.)

I've been specifically asked about my compass correction card, which has the exact same STEER numbers as it does FOR heading numbers. I have to explain that I have a very accurate mag compass. (And I do.)
I calibrated it at a local airport compass rose myself. It wasn't difficult.
I think I've explained the process here before. Generally, you'll want to compensate your mag compass to alleviate any huge errors, then use the correction card to minimize any remaining errors.

Here's a pic of the original compass and correction card location for the '53 model.

To be totally legal a compass rose needs to be certified within the last __________ ( don't remember ) but was told some years ago by a FAA person, that very few have been certified for many years, in the whole country. Course the magnetic pole wanders around quite a bit and a lot of runways have been renumbered in the last few years for that reason. Runway headings can be used and VORs I think, course now days a GPS is probably the most accurate. But don't know if the FAA is that up to date. Kind of like the airport light, used to be on at night or in IFR conditions, now it is set on a photo cell??????

There have been discussions here regarding the potential errors of using GPS to calibrate a compass card. They are numerous.
If the paint of a compass rose on the pavement is still legible, the rose is going to be more accurate than the compass in the airplane.
Runways are re-numbered for a lot of reasons, usually more for convenience and to avoid assignment-error and ATC purpsoses than for actual changes of isogonic lines.
Looking at the Dallas Fort Worth Sectional Chart for Sep. 1940, versus today, there is only a 2-degree difference. And it's gone back and forth + or - a degree or so over the last 5 decades and still averaged out. But the runways at DFW have been renumbered numerous times for unrelated reasons....certainly not because of a required 10-degree change in rwy versus variation. A runway is usually, not always, but usually numbered only to the closest 10 degrees. (The actual runway heading to the nearest degree can be found in the Airport Information Directory, and on most approach/info charts. For example, Rwy 17C at DFW is actually Runway heading: 174 magnetic, 180 true ... exactly the same as Rwy 18L)

here were the basic
guidelines that i had
if one gets ramp checked.

RAMP CHECK!!

Ask for ID
Witnesses
Ask why check
No Warrant
No touch Plane
Can't take lic
Can't ground!

iowa

iowa that is a short and sweet list.

I've never had an FAA guy approach me without his credentials hanging around his neck and or they introduce themselves as a representative of the FAA and offer their credentials. the next thing they say is the purpose of their visit or inquiry.

If an FAA guy told me he thought my aircraft was unairworthy I'd have to be PRETTY DARN SURE of myself before I flew it in his presence. So I guess they can effectively ground an aircraft.

iowa wrote:here were the basic
guidelines that i had
if one gets ramp checked.

RAMP CHECK!!

Ask for ID
Witnesses
Ask why check
No Warrant
No touch Plane
Can't take lic
Can't ground!

iowa

The last ...Can't ground... is technically true. He can't prevent you from getting into the plane without valid certificates and go fly. He also can't prevent you from kissing the lineboy full on the lips.

BUT he can place a "Condition Tag" on your airplane, and if you then operate it a violation can be made and probably observed directly by the inspector. And he'll be there observing your operations, so if he's discovered that you're without a valid airman's certificate and operate anyway,...there's another violation. Etc., etc.

I once headed into AUS in my Cessna 206, in a hurry to pick up a friend's Baron to run him somewhere in it. The weather was IFR and I shot an ILS to minimums and rolled out and turned right, directly onto an FBO ramp where the Baron was gassed up and awaiting.
As I bailed out of my Cessna and strode toward the Baron (I had to taxi it across the field to another FBO to pick up the owner) I saw a gentleman walking towards me from inside the nearby hangar.
"Hi! Going flying?" he asked.
"Yes", I replied.
He held out his credentials as he asked if he could perform a ramp check. (He actually mentioned the FAR 133 that provides for the ramp check.)
I told him, "If it doesn't take too long. I've got to get across the field to pick up a passenger."
He stated it would only take a minute or two, and asked for the aircraft's documents.
I asked, "Which aircraft do you wish to inspect?", (while suddenly realizing my airplane was out of license as of yesterday! It was the first of the month and my airplane was due annual and in the rush of the pop-up-trip request from the passenger I'd completely forgotten it!)
Naturally, he wanted to examine the airplane he'd just seen me land (and not the one I was about to "go flying" in.)
He looked over the Airworthiness Certificate, the Registration Certificate, and my Pilot and Medical Certificates. He asked if the aircraft's logs were available. I told him, "No. Sorry."
He thanked me, and handed all the certs. back to me.
And that was that.

And I got my airplane into the shop to be inspected the next day!

(The statute has run out on this long ago.)

If you want to view the inspector's guidlines from the FAA on a "ramp check", ...including the "job aid" he'll likely use, go to:

http://www.faa.gov/library/manuals/exam ... 056_00.pdf

These days, you should never answer questions except with another question. If someone asks you "Are you going flying"...then your response should be "Who are you?" (1:You are better prepared to give an answer after you know who you're talking to. 2:You, being the sharp pilot that you are, need to know that the person on the airport ramp has authority to be there. He might be a terrorist in disguise, wearing a suit and a FAA name-tag.)