Future of Loran
Moderators: GAHorn, Karl Towle, Bruce Fenstermacher
- GAHorn
- Posts: 21302
- Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2002 8:45 pm
Future of Loran
From AIN AINonline.com (Aviation Intn'l News service):
Survey Shows Overwhelming Support for Loran
A public survey by the DOT and Homeland Security drew more than 900 responses about whether Loran should be kept operational or shut down. Pending an official tally, a preliminary count indicates that around 93 percent of the responses supported continued operation, divided roughly into 40 percent each from aviation and marine users, and 20 percent from other interests, including telecommunications giant Sprint, which values Loran’s timing as a GPS backup. Aviation supporters included the Air Transport Association, AOPA, Boeing, the National Air Transportation Association and NBAA, which suggested that additional time be given to establishing the full aviation benefits of e- (enhanced) Loran. International Loran Association president and former FAA administrator Langhorne Bond hailed the strong endorsement of the system after so many stays of execution. On January 8, the Departments of Transportation and Homeland Security issued a request for comments on Loran. The comment period closed on February 7.
Survey Shows Overwhelming Support for Loran
A public survey by the DOT and Homeland Security drew more than 900 responses about whether Loran should be kept operational or shut down. Pending an official tally, a preliminary count indicates that around 93 percent of the responses supported continued operation, divided roughly into 40 percent each from aviation and marine users, and 20 percent from other interests, including telecommunications giant Sprint, which values Loran’s timing as a GPS backup. Aviation supporters included the Air Transport Association, AOPA, Boeing, the National Air Transportation Association and NBAA, which suggested that additional time be given to establishing the full aviation benefits of e- (enhanced) Loran. International Loran Association president and former FAA administrator Langhorne Bond hailed the strong endorsement of the system after so many stays of execution. On January 8, the Departments of Transportation and Homeland Security issued a request for comments on Loran. The comment period closed on February 7.
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.

- GAHorn
- Posts: 21302
- Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2002 8:45 pm
I'm a fan of the KLN-88 Loran because they do so much for so little moola. It was an IFR enroute/terminal/approach loran that would do virtually everything the KLN-90B GPS would do, until the FAA quit supporting loran appchs. Now I use it for enroute/terminal and to monitor gps appch's. (i.e., it'll still do most of what gps will do. It has not terrain features, but otherwise, at least as far as aviation waypoints/fixes go, it'll provide an excellent moving map, as well as airport data, frequencies, course-deviation-indicator, VOR info/distance/radial/navigation, etc.)
On this recent trip to ABQ and back, the Garmin GPS actually dropped sat signals for a short while and messaged "no sat nav available"...but that KLN-88 kept on working with excellent signal coverage.
The only drawback to the 88 is database costs. If you insist on a current database it'll cost a couple hundred dollars. If you can live with an out-of-date database (and input your own fixes...a very simple matter using either actual position, lat/long, or vor brg/dist) it is still a lot of Bang for the buck.
Typical street purchase prices of good serviceable units is around $150/up and installation is a breeze. I have the installation manual for anyone who needs to do it.
On this recent trip to ABQ and back, the Garmin GPS actually dropped sat signals for a short while and messaged "no sat nav available"...but that KLN-88 kept on working with excellent signal coverage.
The only drawback to the 88 is database costs. If you insist on a current database it'll cost a couple hundred dollars. If you can live with an out-of-date database (and input your own fixes...a very simple matter using either actual position, lat/long, or vor brg/dist) it is still a lot of Bang for the buck.
Typical street purchase prices of good serviceable units is around $150/up and installation is a breeze. I have the installation manual for anyone who needs to do it.
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention.
An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.

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- Posts: 79
- Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2006 8:52 am
i've got a flybuddy in my 170 right now and i want to take it out (make the plane lighter, of course!)
if anyone wants it, shoot me an e-mail. whats it worth? nothing to me... heck... i may even throw in a $20 gift certificate to ANYWHERE
if anyone wants it, shoot me an e-mail. whats it worth? nothing to me... heck... i may even throw in a $20 gift certificate to ANYWHERE

-Trevor Meeks
Filmmaker http://www.meeksdigitalstudios.com
Photographer http://www.meeksdigital.com
1950 Cessna 170A N5LP, Horton STOL, 180 Gear
Filmmaker http://www.meeksdigitalstudios.com
Photographer http://www.meeksdigital.com
1950 Cessna 170A N5LP, Horton STOL, 180 Gear
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- Posts: 145
- Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:17 am
"i've got a flybuddy in my 170 right now and i want to take it out (make the plane lighter, of course!)"
I feel the same way.... I have one that I never use (Though I used to know how to use LORAN, it has been so long that I have forgotten everything)
One of these years, when I upgrade my panel to center stack, the LORAN and the ADF are gone. (Maybe by that time WAAS will be, if not affordable, at least reasonable!)
I feel the same way.... I have one that I never use (Though I used to know how to use LORAN, it has been so long that I have forgotten everything)
One of these years, when I upgrade my panel to center stack, the LORAN and the ADF are gone. (Maybe by that time WAAS will be, if not affordable, at least reasonable!)
N5740C 1950 'A' Model
- Bruce Fenstermacher
- Posts: 10425
- Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 11:24 am
By the time it's affordable or even reasonable you won't be flyng because of other user fees and taxes.Iceman07 wrote:One of these years, when I upgrade my panel to center stack, the LORAN and the ADF are gone. (Maybe by that time WAAS will be, if not affordable, at least reasonable!)

CAUTION - My forum posts may be worth what you paid for them!
Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
- cessna170bdriver
- Posts: 4115
- Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2002 5:13 pm
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- Posts: 145
- Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:17 am
I already have a 396, which is a great unit, and the main reason why I never even turn the LORAN on.cessna170bdriver wrote:WAAS is already affordable (by airplane standards at least). Go find yourself a used Garmin 296 - less than one Aviation Money Unit (1 AMU = $1000, but don't let anyone's wife know.
)
Miles
My dream is to someday have a full IFR center stack panel. Right now, I estimate that would be about 20-25 AMU's...
But I'm afraid that N9141A is probably correct, by the time I can afford it, I won't be able to afford to fly at all.
N5740C 1950 'A' Model
- Bruce Fenstermacher
- Posts: 10425
- Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 11:24 am
Yes Miles you can use that portable GPS to fly an illegal approach and get away with it by saying you flew the VOR or NDB approach that underlies it. But not for long I'm afraid at many airports.cessna170bdriver wrote:WAAS is already affordable (by airplane standards at least). Go find yourself a used Garmin 296 - less than one Aviation Money Unit (1 AMU = $1000, but don't let anyone's wife know.
)
Miles
My particular airport is the second last of five airports in a two county area to have a VOR or NDB approach. In our case we have both for now but that can and will change at any minute. Our NDB is one of the few still remaining in the north east and will not be repaired the next time it stops working.
The privately owned VOR that our airports approaches are based on is scheduled to be shut down any day now. Seems the billionaire that owns the VOR and the airport, built hangers that block the signals from being used for an approach at his airport. He doesn't care of course because his plane has legal IFR GPS.
My 170* is one of five aircraft at our airport that has a legal approach GPS installed. That being typical there won't be much IFR by locals being flown in our area unless you can afford the GPS install and upkeep.
*For those that want to know I have a Garmin 155 with the required annunciator panel and left/right indiactor and the installaton has been approved for IFR use. The 155 doesn't have a moving map but it drives my GPSIII which does and the 155 doesn't have WAAS capability. I don't keep the 155 database current however.
CAUTION - My forum posts may be worth what you paid for them!
Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
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- Posts: 652
- Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 12:33 am
Iceman - I chose to combine the Garmin 430 with a King Nav/Com. The 430 is mounted in the lower left hand side of my panel - replacing an older radio. I have no difficulty seeing the 430 for approaches, etc. The 430 drives the number one OBS, the King drives the number two OBS - both have loc/GS capability. I removed the NDB (in anticipation of installing a glove box - still in the works). I find this combination very easy to manage single pilot. The acquistion price of the 430 is something to prepare for and the annual subscription is not cheap. Never-the-less, I find the panel works well for me.
- trake
- Posts: 161
- Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2002 1:34 am
I like my flybuddy for a couple reasons: I can see it at night. My garmin 3 gps has lousy backlighting. number 2 : I can keep navigating while I change the batteries in my GPS. Number 3: I like to search the database for airport info etc while navigating with the garmin. Number 4 its a great crosscheck and backup
Tracy Ake
1955 cessna 170b
sn26936
N2993D
1955 cessna 170b
sn26936
N2993D
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- Posts: 14
- Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2002 10:58 pm
Can anyone use an Apollo 612B loran? You can have it and the antenna (no tray) for free. Pick it up or pay for shipping. I replaced it with the "slide in" Apollo GX55 GPS a number of years ago.
I don't keep the GPS data up to date either. Interestingly, it costs well over $100 to get an update for the GX55. It was only about $30 or so to get an update for the hand held Garmin 195. It's been a while, so I don't recall the exact prices.
I don't keep the GPS data up to date either. Interestingly, it costs well over $100 to get an update for the GX55. It was only about $30 or so to get an update for the hand held Garmin 195. It's been a while, so I don't recall the exact prices.
- Bruce Fenstermacher
- Posts: 10425
- Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2002 11:24 am
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