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P-51's collide at OSH

Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 3:07 pm
by GAHorn
A two-ship formation of P-51's crashed during landing when the following ship overtook the lead at touchdown.
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EAA spokesman Dick Knapinski said Gerald S. Beck, 58, of Wahpeton, N.D. was killed in the crash and Casey Odegaard, 24, of Kindred, N.D., received minor injuries.

Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 9:16 pm
by 4stripes
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Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 5:49 pm
by iowa
i was at oshkosh w/my kids,
but was at the EAA museum
when it happened, thank goodness!
the pilot that was killed was
gary beck, who runs a restoration shop
up at the whapeton airport in Mn.
my brother has worked for him
and related this news to me
last nite.
too bad.
dave

Oshkosh Fatality

Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 11:25 pm
by 170C
I too was at Oshkosh and saw the "race" going on, and saw the skydivers plane overhead, but no jumpers. After a bit we learned what happened. Still don't have specific details regarding why the accident occured, but no doubt pilot error was involved. Hate to hear of the aviation world losing a good pilot as well as another rare aircraft. :cry:

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 12:43 am
by jrenwick
I spoke today with someone who was there when the P51s crashed. She said that when two aircraft land in formation, the rearmost aircraft must land first. The forward aircraft must wait until the one behind it is down, or go around. In this case, the forward aircraft landed first, and the rearward aircraft ran into it, or, as the photos George posted suggest, lost control trying to avoid hitting it.

I have zero experience in close formation flying, but this raises my appreciation for the dangers involved.

Formation flying is routine in wartime and military training, and so is death, unfortunately. I see so many dangerous things done in airshows, and I'd always rather they didn't take those risks for my enjoyment. Airshow formation flying has claimed far too many good pilots even great ones, and as far as I'm concerned, even one is too many.

But what are you gonna do? People always seem to want to take risks. God bless them, but it just tears me up.

Please be carefull!!!!

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 2:18 am
by 4-Shipp
I have seen the video of the landing and indeed the number two appeared to overtake and come into contact with lead. In the video it appears that number two is high on lead (flying above him) but it is not evident if he had lost sight of lead or not.

There are only three rules for the wing man when flying formation:

1. Do not hit lead.

2. Do not hit lead.

3. Do not hit lead.

It is the wingman's and only the wingman's responsibility to deconflict from lead at all times and in all situations. In a properly briefed formation flight, there are strict protocols to be followed when sight is lost or circumstances prevent the wingman from maintaining his position.

I have my thoughts as to what transpired at OSH, but it is merely speculation and at this juncture the point is moot. Why the wingman was not able to deconflict from lead is irrelevant. The fact that he did not was fatal.

I have taken young USAF LT's solo on my wing on only their 6th formation flight in the T-37. But only after they have demonstrated both the procedural knowledge and ability to maintain their position, and most importantly, the discipline to follow the rules when things do not go as planned!

Some of the most enjoyable flights I have had in my 170 have been in close formation with other aircraft. The other aircraft have always been flown by pilots with proper formation training. There are a few folks at the local field who participate in un-briefed, un-planned formation flight with absolutely no formal training whatsoever. I try not to even be around when they are flying.

My point? There are many opportunities to receive formation training and it is another skill that is a true pleasure to add to your resume. But please, do not be tempted to participate without the training. As witnessed last week, it is a very unforgiving environment. Please be careful. Thanks for listening.

Bruce

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 2:52 am
by dacker
Well said Bruce... to summarize, two airplanes flying close to one another does not a formation make! Proper formation flying requires more training than the typical layman realizes.
David

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 2:57 am
by iowa
one must also remember that
affulent older guys own P-51's now.
the young 19 and 20 year olds of wwii
probably could fly circles aroung them.
dave

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:22 pm
by 15A

Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:45 pm
by HA
funeral for Gerry tonight
http://www.fargoairmuseum.org/

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 7:59 pm
by iowa
was going thru my oshkosh pics
and ran across this one.
i had taken this pic on the 'square'
of the 'berlin airlift' plane
and wanted the p51 to add some color to the photo.
little did i realize that this p51 and it's pilot
woudn't survive oshkosh :cry:
dave
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