Donated/Auctioned Flights

[Robert Eilers]

I am associated with an organization of pilots and aircraft owners. The organization is considering donating flights - like the Bay Area Tour of San Francisco - as an auction item at a fund raising event. I am told the FAA recently expressed some grieve with this sort of thing, however I can't seem to find anything specific on the issue. Is anyone aware of the FAA position and willing to explain it to me?

[doug8082a]

They are likely referring to the National Air Tour Safety ruling from the FAA which covers commercial sightseeing flights along with charitable and non-profit flights.

Check this AOPA link which also has a link to the FAA final rule. You'll need to examine how your organization is structured (charity, non-profit, commercial, etc.) and how you plan on paying for/donating the flights and see how that all fits into the FAA ruling.

http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/regulatory/airtour.html

[Robert Eilers]

Perfect - Thx Doug

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

To be more specific the ruling as Doug called it is a regulation having passed the criteria and recently put in effect.

The AOPA and EAA are good sources for understanding the new regulations.

[doug8082a]

To be more specific the ruling as Doug called it is a regulation having passed the criteria and recently put in effect.

The AOPA and EAA are good sources for understanding the new regulations.

Thanks for clarifying my typo, Bruce.. I need to pay more attention to what I'm typing...

[Robert Eilers]

Thanks for the reference to 91.146. I was able to locate it on the AOPA web site (I was having trouble navigating the new site) and pulled up the electronic version of 91.146. As a result, I was able to adequately educate our members regarding the new FAR. I doubt seriously that we will be donating any flights.

[GAHorn]

The pertinent FAR is:

91.146 Passenger-carrying flights for the benefit of a charitable, nonprofit, or community event.
(a) Definitions. For purposes of this section, the following definitions apply:

Charitable event means an event that raises funds for the benefit of a charitable organization recognized by the Department of the Treasury whose donors may deduct contributions under section 170 of the Internal Revenue Code (26 U.S.C. Section 170).

Community event means an event that raises funds for the benefit of any local or community cause that is not a charitable event or non-profit event.

Non-profit event means an event that raises funds for the benefit of a non-profit organization recognized under State or Federal law, as long as one of the organization's purposes is the promotion of aviation safety.

(b) Passenger carrying flights for the benefit of a charitable, nonprofit, or community event identified in paragraph (c) of this section are not subject to the certification requirements of part 119 or the drug and alcohol testing requirements in part 121, appendices I and J, of this chapter, provided the following conditions are satisfied and the limitations in paragraphs (c) and (d) are not exceeded:

(1) The flight is nonstop and begins and ends at the same airport and is conducted within a 25-statute mile radius of that airport;

(2) The flight is conducted from a public airport that is adequate for the airplane or helicopter used, or from another location the FAA approves for the operation;

(3) The airplane or helicopter has a maximum of 30 seats, excluding each crewmember seat, and a maximum payload capacity of 7,500 pounds;

(4) The flight is not an aerobatic or a formation flight;

(5) Each airplane or helicopter holds a standard airworthiness certificate, is airworthy, and is operated in compliance with the applicable requirements of subpart E of this part;

(6) Each flight is made during day VFR conditions;

(7) Reimbursement of the operator of the airplane or helicopter is limited to that portion of the passenger payment for the flight that does not exceed the pro rata cost of owning, operating, and maintaining the aircraft for that flight, which may include fuel, oil, airport expenditures, and rental fees;

( 8 ) The beneficiary of the funds raised is not in the business of transportation by air;

(9) A private pilot acting as pilot in command has at least 500 hours of flight time;

*(10) Each flight is conducted in accordance with the safety provisions of part 136, subpart A of this chapter; and

(11) Flights are not conducted over a national park, unit of a national park, or abutting tribal lands, unless the operator has secured a letter of agreement from the FAA, as specified under subpart B of part 136 of this chapter, and is operating in accordance with that agreement during the flights.

(c) (1) Passenger-carrying flights or series of flights are limited to a total of four charitable events or non-profit events per year, with no event lasting more than three consecutive days.

(2) Passenger-carrying flights or series of flights are limited to one community event per year, with no event lasting more than three consecutive days.

(d) Pilots and sponsors of events described in this section are limited to no more than 4 events per calendar year.

(e) At least seven days before the event, each sponsor of an event described in this section must furnish to the FAA Flight Standards District Office with jurisdiction over the geographical area where the event is scheduled:

(1) A signed letter detailing the name of the sponsor, the purpose of the event, the date and time of the event, the location of the event, all prior events under this section participated in by the sponsor in the current calendar year;

(2) A photocopy of each pilot in command's pilot certificate, medical certificate, and logbook entries that show the pilot is current in accordance with §§61.56 and 61.57 of this chapter and that any private pilot has at least 500 hours of flight time; and

(3) A signed statement from each pilot that lists all prior events under this section in which the pilot has participated during the current calendar year.

[Doc. No. FAA–1998–4521, 72 FR 6910, Feb. 13, 2007]

* FAR 136, Subpart A addresses passenger briefings, use of life preservers, etc. common to all flights.

[blueldr]

Thank god for the FAA!

Just think of what a mess we would make of the crowded skies if we were allowed to make all those free charitable sight seeing flights around our cities and other sights of interest.

Fortunately for GA, the FAA is no longer tasked with the development and promotion of flying for the American people.

I kind of look at that as having had a festering carbuncle surgically excised from the butt of GA.

Now, if we could just figure a way to delete that whole alphabetic government agency.

[GAHorn]

I donated a one hour sightseeing flight (for one pax) in the 170 to the local elementary school as a fundraiser for the PTA. After a little over a year the winner (who had won it in a lottery having donated $100) had yet to claim it due to scheduling difficulities, despite 3 different calls I made to him to conclude it. He then wanted me to take not just himself, but his two sons up along. I wanted to get it over with, and was glad he finally came to agree to a mutually acceptable day for the flight, and agreed.
He then cautioned me that his youngest boy sometimes got a "little car sick".
I tried to refund his money and he threatened to "badmouth" me. I told him to have at it, donated an equal amount to the local assistance-center, and refuse to do this ever again.
I view my airplane much as a flying museum does their equipment: It's an increasingly rare item, neatly restored to near-originality, and it is at risk every time it flys. I see one of my obligations as a caretaker, to keep it relatively preserved for the future. It no longer is suitable for general transportation purposes and there are many other modern aircraft more suitable for joy rides, actual travel, etc., so I use it for the pleasure and convenience of myself and those I closely trust only.

[N2865C]

I donated 2 rides last year at silent auction fundraisers for cancer research. The first one went for $500 and the second for $250 Neither one has collected yet....... Perhaps they thought better of it once they sobered up .

[Robert Eilers]

Although the organization I belong to may donate flights - now, within the provisions of 91.146 - I just don't anymore. I agree with George. In the early days, I participated in Young Eagles and other events and have some real horror stories to tell. I am skeptical of the waiver's of liability used by the various organizations and have concluded - in the long run-the small benefit afforded by my flight just does not balance against the down side. Maybe I have just turned into a grumpy old man - but, I just don't it anymore. Everyone is appreciative of the donation until something goes wrong - then it can get very lonely.

[blueldr]

Robert,
I think you're probably correct in reference to a waiver of liability.
My next door neighbor (Read;"Beer drinking Buddy") on Anderson AFB on Guam, was the TJA (Head Military Lawyer) of the air division.
As you all probably know, the Air Force had a waiver of liability form that was required of all civilians riding on Air Force aicraft. He told me that it was pure BS because you cannot waive liability before the fact.
He was the law expert, so who am I to argue with him.
I suspect that the average unknowing person would perhaps be discouraged from pursuing a claim knowing that they had signed the waiver form.

[N2865C]

Every time I put someone in my plane I think about the liability involved and take far fewer people flying than I otherwise might. IMHO it is just another one of the many reasons that general aviation as we know it won't be around for all that much longer. I am thankful that the person who gave me my first ride in a GA plane took the risk to put me in his plane. It changed and enriched my life.

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

I am thankful that the person who gave me my first ride in a GA plane took the risk to put me in his plane. It changed and enriched my life.

This is exactly why I take anybody who asks and many who don't but I make the offer, for a ride in my airplanes. I give Young Eagles rides and I will within the regulations give charitable flights. There have been a lot of people over the years that have shared many things with me. It's my turn and way to give back. I'm much more likely to give flying lessons using my CFI certificate to someone who can't afford to pay me than one who offers good enumeration.

My planes are not pristine examples but none the less are just as valuable to the fleet. To me an airplane to pristine to risk flying is not worth as much. Actually this goes for most everything I own. What is the point of owning it if you won't use it for it's intended purpose.

Is there risk? You bet. There is risk getting out of bed. There is risk staying in bed. That's why I pay my insurance premiums. If that is not enough so be it. I can't live my life worrying about it.

The day I curtail the use of my stuff because of risk will be the day I'll be selling it.

I may be a renegade here. Life is to short.

[Hawkeyenfo]

I agree with you Bruce and have been taking folks up in my 170 since buying it (okay, I haven't had it that long). I was given a few precious rides when I was young and those helped sway me to pursue a dream vice a job, resulting in the last 16+ years in the Navy flying Hawkeyes. I cannot begin to give enough back to GA and with a little luck, maybe I'll help to steer someone's life toward this great thing we all share.