The International Cessna^® 170 Association

Imput on Landing Contest would be helpful!

- Is it best to spot land from the end of the pavement or a mark somewhere down the runway?
- Would putting cones or markers every 50ft be good?
- Would it be better on grass if available?
- Measurement from end of runway (or mark) to where the plane stops?
- Two categories - wheel landing & 3-point or B vs pre52's?

A mark (not at the threshold, in order to avoid short-landing risks) down the runway is a good idea, in my view.

The LAST point of touchdown is the one that counts. (takes care of bounces)


Wheel and/or 3-points are fine, but wheel landings don't challenge much for a spot landing. 3-points are easier/more clearly judged, but again... the LAST point where ALL THREE wheels remain planted is what counts.

Some contests have handicaps for pilot skills. Example: Comm/ATP/CFI ratings must close throttles on downwind, not add power (disqualifying) or flaps til touchdown.

Private Pilots: Same except they may use flaps, and may only make power REDUCTIONS from downwind to touchdown.

Students: Anything goes, flaps, slips, power is available.

Where all 3 wheels touch or come to a stop? Before running into the Alders! This is for 170 Convention!

For a SPOT landing...it's where they TOUCH for the final time. For a SHORT FIELD landing it's where they STOP.... but only if they landed BEYOND the initial touchdown marker. All landings prior to a touchdown marker are disqualifying.

In spot landing contests that I remember, they measured from where the tailwheel (or main wheels, if tricycle gear) touched down for the last time, and any touch before the mark is disqualifying. Throttle had to be closed on downwind and stay that way. Use of flaps and slips was allowed.

I vote for that. Basically, it's who can do the best power-off 180 degree accuracy approach/landing, per the Commercial Pilot PTS. (With "best" meaning simply closest to the mark.)

KISS

First part of the plane that touches is the spot whether the tail wheel or the main. Either before or after the spot which should be at the touch down zone. The spot can be marked with cones at the side and a line drawn across the runway with flower or lime, we have even used 2 inch masking tape successfully.

To add a bit more skill you might disqualify touches before the line.

To illiminate all but the seriously competitive pilots from entering the contest at all, start to restrict the use of controls like throttle and flaps.

It's fun, not meant to be serious competition.

Handicaps on use of throttle and flaps is not intended (and does not result) to discourage all but competitive types. The fact that you're holding a spot landing contest by definition is competitive.
The handicaps serve to LEVEL the playing field, taking away some of the advantages of professionals and giving the less experienced pilots a better chance to compete fairly.

N9149A wrote:KISS

First part of the plane that touches is the spot whether the tail wheel or the main. ..

That seems like a no-contest. A multiple bounce would count the first touchdown. A wheel landing is an easy one to "spot"... just carry lots of speed and touch one down just past the marker. Not much skill there!

A 3-point with the tail touching first and the mains 10 feet later should count only at the point where all 3 are on the ground and stays there.

I definitely think the touchdown point needs to be down the runway a reasonable distance to keep people from landing short or hitting obstructions.

I also think the point that mains on trikes and tail wheel with all three of staying on for conventional gear staying is the on the point to be marked. I don't know how to make it fair for wheel landings but the tail wheel should be part of the equation.

I also think handy caps are an interesting concept but as the current thought is to make a landing approach the same each time so you get the same picture all the time makes no flaps for ATP/Commercial a little too tough. The power and slips I can see but if you always put flaps in at specific places and speeds then eliminating them makes it a little too tough.

White lime not the pellets is one of the items of choice on a grass field and works fine on hard surfices also. The cones are also ok but harder to see when concentrating on the runway.

The spot landing contests are a lot of fun.

SteveF

IMHP Bruce still holds the record for the best short field landing at Petit Jean several years ago. AR Dave posted a video of his landing. I am looking forward to visiting with old friends at Petit Jean this year.

Tom Race

George if you think it's easy with the simple rules of first bounce closest to the line either side your on.

It's not that easy.

BTW who flies their 170 professionally?

Want to make it interesting put the spot at the bottom of the numbers and limit the roll to 500 feet. I'm game but don't think most of our members will be.

And that is the point, to include as many members as we can. Not to have the most challenging contest.

I rarely am legally current in my 170, but my 38 years of flying probably gives me an advantage over a student/private pilot. (I could have those words crammed back down my throat, also. I was never as proficient in single engined airplanes as I was the day after my private checkride.)
But the point is to level the field a bit.
Bounces aren't landings. They are botched landings. If you'd like to have a botched-spot-landing contest, then we can use your rules if you like.

gahorn wrote:If you'd like to have a botched-spot-landing contest, then we can use your rules if you like.

Now were talking. Finally an event in which I would be highly qualified.

lowNslow wrote:

gahorn wrote:If you'd like to have a botched-spot-landing contest, then we can use your rules if you like.

Now were talking. Finally an event in which I would be highly qualified.

George now your on to something. We've already sucked Karl into the fun. Wonder how many others might join knowing they have the capability to be competitive.

Good feedback here and in PM's also. I understand that the main point is to have it set up so that everyone wants to participates and has fun. Might need several fun categories or something.

Having never participated in a formal landing contest but many unforgiving short field landings, here's what short field landings mean to me. You better land precisely at the beginning of the runway and stop before you crash off the other end. It is not as important where you touch as it is where you stop. So I thought in a contest there would be a mark down the runway (safety) and contestants might land as closed to the mark as possible (not short because of the alligators) and stop as soon as possible (before running into Willows) where the judge marks the front tire. Of course the 170 will not be able to take off without skipping off the backs of those alligators. This would be a shortfield landing and not a spot landing. What would be the purpose of landing on a spot if you don't stop anyway?

Dave I'm with you. Go for it. Oh have you reviewed my SL video lately.