The International Cessna^® 170 Association

I had a friend that got ramp checked the other day. He had flown into a major airport in his 182/180 conv. He had the back seats folded up and was loading a 200.lb copier into the rear of the aircraft as the FAA approached and started asking questions. He wanted to know how he knew that it was alright to put the copier at that location. The pilot said that he could place two people (400lbs) at that location and that the aircrafts W/B would be alright. He was then asked to show him the aircrafts W/B paperwork and prove it. The pilot then proceeded to show the FAA his current W/B then brought out both the 180 and 182’s operating hand books which are the same in this respect, and show him that it was in fact alright and fell into the approved envelope. The FAA got all upset and wanted to know where the datum was and wanted to know how far the copier was from it and wanted the entire W/B to be figured in inches and arm’s. The pilot pointed out that that’s not how Cessna did it and that he just showed him that they use units graphs and an envelope that is between fwd and aft and that if the loaded W/B falls inside the graph he’s legal. The FAA insisted that the manual was incorrect in how it is suppose to figure out a W/B and that this wasn’t over and that he was going to file a report on the matter. This all took an hour and a half which detained him from an appointment to deliver said copier. When the pilot inquired as to what all that meant and if he was going to receive a copy of this report he got no satisfactory answer to that question. He departed the airport copier on board and proceeded to delivered it. Better late than never . This is our FAA at work. Lance
I think he's on double secret probation now!

Your friend gave the inspector much more consideration than I would have. After showing him the W/B paperwork and taking MY time to show him in the approved POH how W/B is figured for that aircaft, the inspector still wanted to argue the point, I would have advised him that if he had further questions he could ask them through my attorney, and I would have been on my way. Standing on the ramp arguing with a pilot over the proper procedure for performing W/B on the aircraft is definitely not one of the things an inspector is allowed to do in the performance of a ramp check.

I would have told him I didn't have time to teach school and that he had no authority to delay my departure and leave.

I attended a Wings seminar given by people from the Minneapolis FSDO last weekend. One of them talked about ramp checks, and I'll summarize what he said:

1. He always asks departing pilots "have you got time for a ramp check?" You can say "no" and he'll save it for another time, but if you've just landed, you don't have the choice.
2. He seemed to be saying that a ramp check consists only of looking at paperwork: pilot license, photo ID, medical, airworthiness certificate, registration, Operating Limitations or AFM (what ever is required for the particular aircraft), and W&B sheet. I didn't get to ask him if or when the FAA ever did more than that.
3. There are enough gotchas in just those seven things. Some things he mentioned, and others I can think of:

After March of next year, your pilot license must be a plastic one (FAR 61.19(h)). If you've moved, be sure the FAA has your new address. If not, and it's been more than 30 days, your license is invalid.
Has your medical certificate expired? Or are you operating legally under Sport Pilot rules?
Don't have an expired driver's license! (Unless you can prove you renewed it.)
They caught me with an expired Airworthiness certificate in my J3 once, a looong time ago. That, at least, shouldn't be a problem these days.
Make sure the A/C is properly registered, which it might not be if you didn't give your last address change to the FAA. If you find you need a temporary registration in a hurry, you can call Oklahoma City and ask for a "fly-by-wire." They'll FAX you a temporary registration.
Be sure you have all the placards required by the AFM or TCDS. Including a compass correction card (another one from my experience).

2. He seemed to be saying that a ramp check consists only of looking at paperwork: pilot license, photo ID, medical, airworthiness certificate, registration, Operating Limitations or AFM (what ever is required for the particular aircraft), and W&B sheet. I didn't get to ask him if or when the FAA ever did more than that.

Hey George, how about making a clean list of what must be in the plane when ramped checked. And locate it where I can find it, like the recommended mods list. I sure like the fact that I can go to the MEMBERS ONLY tab and simply download valuable documents like the Operating Limitations for my 1955 170B. Thanks for answering my question about that thing spinny around in my plane also.

Here's the AOPA "ramp check" article: http://www.cessna170.org/forums/viewtop ... eck#p56986

FAA ramp checks will be a source of frustration and controversy for pilots no matter how many times they are explained. Generally, a ramp check is to determine compliance with the requirements of a certificate issued by the FAA (pilot certificate, airworthiness certificate, air carrier certificate, etc.). Federal law ( 49 USC 44709/not an FAR) allows/requires the FAA to "reinspect" at any time and any place to make sure that the holder of a certificate meets the qualifications to continue to exercise the privileges of that authorization. An FAA inspector is not a law enforcement official and does not have the authority to detain a person or stop any flight operation. An airworthiness inspector can issue a 5 day grounding notice to an aircraft operated by an air carrier if it meets certain safety criteria but other than that an employee of the FAA has no power to detain or prevent flight or any other action by any airman. If an FAA inspector believes that there is a specific threat to public safety or if a law may be broken, that inspector must contact law enforcement and request that preventive action be taken.
So what does this mean to the average pilot? As George has said time and time again, if you are approached by an FAA inspector for a ramp inspection, be cooperative and allow them to look over your aircraft/inspect your certificates and expect to be on your way within less than 5 minutes if everything is in order. If you are notified of a problem, you must assess what you are being told and take responsibile action. You do not need to have your aircraft maintenance records or pilot log book with you. If the inspector points out a potential discrepancy, with the aircraft, he/she should document it on a written condition notice that is presented to you. The aircraft is not grounded, but you should take steps to correct the problem before further flight. If you are certain that the condition is airworthy or safe, you can proceed and know that the FAA will have to prove by preponderance of evidence if they intend to follow up with an enforcement case. If the condition requires maintenance, then have the maintenance accomplished and the aircraft properly returned to service. This is common sense folks.
The scenario described reagarding the copy machine goes slightly beyond the specific legal definitions of 44709 which relate to certificates which congress and the president empowered the department of transportation and the FAA to issue to pilots, aircraft, and aviation organizations. The copy machine scenario relates to an operating regulation in Part 91 which requires that a pilot/operator comply with operating limitations found in placards, markings, approved flight manuals, type certificate data sheets,etc. The scenario only gives the version of the pilot who felt the FAA treated him/her unfairly. It is possible that a 200 pound copy machine loaded on folded seats in a 182/180 might present a hazard and the FAA inspector may have brought that to the attention of the pilot for a legitimate safety reason. A pilot who I flew mail with in the 1970s went up to Alaska and was dead within one year because he routinely overloaded his Navajo on charters. For me this personalizes the tragic consequences of a person who has absolutely no respect for legal rules let alone the rules of nature. The FAA has a legitimate responsibility to try and prevent pilots from overloading aircraft in the interest of safety. Many FAA inspectors have personnaly witnessed the tragic consequences of this practice while investigating accidents and it is very difficult for investigators when the victims are innocent passengers or people on the ground who had no control over the foolish decisions of the pilot.
Having said all the above, it is also difficult or perhaps impossible for an FAA inspector to prove with a preponderance of evidence that a pilot operated a particular aircraft on a particular day in a condition that was not in accordance with placards, markings, or other "approved" operating limitations. So as George and others most eloquently stated, a pilot is within his or her's rights to ignore the FAA inspector and get in the airplane and fly away. Or, in the event you have landed, just move on and ignore any requests for further information. Asking the inspector to contact your attorney is not necessary because you are breaking no rule or law by just doing what you have to do and getting on with your life.
One thing you might want to consider, however, is that the FAA inspector who is questioning the 200lb copy machine also goes out and investigates accidents where improper loading and securing of cargo in aircraft has been known to cause serious injury and death to occupants. I think most of us would rather be the subject of a ramp check than a victim of another senseless accident. Fly Safe.