At what altitude, above the ground (AGL), does Class E Airspace begin? FAR 71.71
At what altitude does transition begin?
14,500 to 18,000 MSL and the airspace above FL600 excluding - .......?
transition begins at 1,200 feat above surface of earth to the overlying controlled airspace?
700 ft, 1200 ft?
FAR 71.71 - Class E Airspace - Is there a FAR/AIM for dummies!
Last edited by AR Dave on Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:47 am, edited 3 times in total.
The diagram near the top of that page might have you believing that Class E airspace extends down to the surface at non-towered airports. This is not true for all of them; only some (the diagram shows this, if you look closely). The ones with Class E (surface) will be shown on the chart with a dashed-line circle around them, usually with rectangular extensions in the direction of one or more runways. It looks the same as what we used to call a "control zone" many years ago, and it's essentially the same thing.
Best Regards,
John
John Renwick
Minneapolis, MN
Former owner, '55 C-170B, N4401B
'42 J-3 Cub, N62088
'50 Swift GC-1B, N2431B, Oshkosh 2009 Outstanding Swift Award, 2016 Best Continuously Maintained Swift
The diagram near the top of that page might have you believing that Class E airspace extends down to the surface at non-towered airports. This is not true for all of them; only some (the diagram shows this, if you look closely). The ones with Class E (surface) will be shown on the chart with a dashed-line circle around them, usually with rectangular extensions in the direction of one or more runways. It looks the same as what we used to call a "control zone" many years ago, and it's essentially the same thing.
Best Regards,
John
The best way to think of this is: What is the weather doing? Funny you should ask but the funny dashed line shape around an airport signifies that there is an instrument approach to that airport. So the controlled airspace goes to the ground when the instrument approach is in effect. Well when is it in effect? The answer is when it is needed. The weather visability will generally be lower. This is an easy way to remember this. Class E goes to the ground when the weather is below generally VFR weather minimums. Class G airspace says 1 mile vis. and Cessna 152 that is 1000 above/500 below and 2000 across.(remember at night it will be 3 miles vis. I found this chart easy for my students to use to remember weather. http://flighttraining.aopa.org/student_ ... eqmnts.cfm
A good instructor will always ask his student what airspace he is flying through all the time and ask weather mins to fly when he is where he is. If your instructor doesnt you should find one that does. Weather is so often overlooked in instruction. Just my 2 cents. Doug
canav8 wrote:I forgot to add if you stay in the pattern or below 1200 agl during the day, visability is clear of clouds. Doug
Well Doug what you should have said is if your in Class G airspace visibility is 1 sm and clear of clouds in the day time. That might be below 1200 ft agl where you are but it is 700 ft agl where I am.
I agree I have not found many people who understand Class E airspace. It is always a question I ask and review when I give a BFR. Many pilots just say they would not be flying in weather that would preclude them from flying in Class E airspace. I then ask them if they've ever flown somewhere in the summer when there is 2 1/2 miles with haze. Or I ask them how we legally flew to breakfast at 1000 ft agl under a 1400 ft ceiling. That is when I get this blank stare and their attention.
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Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
N9149A wrote:
I agree I have not found many people who understand Class E airspace. It is always a question I ask and review when I give a BFR. Many pilots just say they would not be flying in weather that would preclude them from flying in Class E airspace. I then ask them if they've ever flown somewhere in the summer when there is 2 1/2 miles with haze. Or I ask them how we legally flew to breakfast at 1000 ft agl under a 1400 ft ceiling. That is when I get this blank stare and their attention.
Bruce,
I do the same thing.....but I bump it up a bit....I use Danville IL. and say we are flying at 800 cuz the clouds are at 1000....Can we legally land at Danville? (cuz were getting scared)..... if not who do we call to get a (special).....and how do you know that....Brad
canav8 wrote:I forgot to add if you stay in the pattern or below 1200 agl during the day, visability is clear of clouds. Doug
Well Doug what you should have said is if your in Class G airspace visibility is 1 sm and clear of clouds in the day time. That might be below 1200 ft agl where you are but it is 700 ft agl where I am.
I agree I have not found many people who understand Class E airspace. It is always a question I ask and review when I give a BFR. Many pilots just say they would not be flying in weather that would preclude them from flying in Class E airspace. I then ask them if they've ever flown somewhere in the summer when there is 2 1/2 miles with haze. Or I ask them how we legally flew to breakfast at 1000 ft agl under a 1400 ft ceiling. That is when I get this blank stare and their attention.
Ahhh Shoot Bruce, you got me. I should have profread my post before posting. To all, I apologize, Bruce is correct. Class E is 700 ft where there is a Key shaped dotted line around an airport. My bad. Thanks, Doug
I do the same thing.....but I bump it up a bit....I use Danville IL. and say we are flying at 800 cuz the clouds are at 1000....Can we legally land at Danville? (cuz were getting scared)..... if not who do we call to get a (special).....and how do you know that
My airport KRHI (Rhinelander, WI) is Class E and when I was out a few weeks ago doing stop and go's on the local lakes with the skis, visibility dropped to 2 miles because of a snow squall. Had to call MPS Center and get a Special VFR to get home. First one I did since flight training. Kind of fun - felt like a pilot and everything
canav8 wrote:..... Class E is 700 ft where there is a Key shaped dotted line around an airport. ... Doug
I'm sure Doug knows this but just typed the wrong thought. Class E airspace starts at the surface inside the magenta dashed lines found around airports and it may or may not contain a key or several keys. Otherwise Class E starts at either 700 ft or 1200 ft depending on what side of the magenta shading you are located.
ClassEairspace.jpg
In the north east it can be very difficult to see where Class E starts at 700ft or 1200ft. Here is picture of the airspace around Reading PA (RDG). One arrow points to the magenta dashed line around the airport showing 2 keyways. Reading is also Class D airspace indicated by the dashed blue line around the airport. The Class D airspace reverts to Class E when the tower is closed.
The other arrow points the the magenta shading showing where Class E starts at 700ft or 1200ft. Sometimes these areas can be difficult to determine. Sometimes I have to run my finger around half the sectional to determine what side of the magenta shade I'm on. the rule is to look to see what the magenta shading is going around. It will be going around one or maybe several airports. That airspace from the airport to the magenta will be the 700ft area.
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CAUTION - My forum posts may be worth what you paid for them!
Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
John Renwick
Minneapolis, MN
Former owner, '55 C-170B, N4401B
'42 J-3 Cub, N62088
'50 Swift GC-1B, N2431B, Oshkosh 2009 Outstanding Swift Award, 2016 Best Continuously Maintained Swift
Paul-WI wrote:...My airport KRHI (Rhinelander, WI) is Class E and when I was out a few weeks ago doing stop and go's on the local lakes with the skis, visibility dropped to 2 miles because of a snow squall. Had to call MPS Center and get a Special VFR to get home. First one I did since flight training. Kind of fun - felt like a pilot and everything
Paul
Paul,
KRHI has a note on the sectional chart: "See NOTAMs/Directory for Class E (sfc) eff hrs"
I have a CFI friend who likes to ask his students to plan a flight to Rhinelander, and then ask what the weather minimums are there. He's never been able to find where the effective hours of Class E airspace for KRHI are published. We searched the A/FD, and we also called FSS to see if they had a NOTAM on it, but they didn't know.
Do you know where this information is published?
John Renwick
Minneapolis, MN
Former owner, '55 C-170B, N4401B
'42 J-3 Cub, N62088
'50 Swift GC-1B, N2431B, Oshkosh 2009 Outstanding Swift Award, 2016 Best Continuously Maintained Swift
jrenwick wrote:
KRHI has a note on the sectional chart: "See NOTAMs/Directory for Class E (sfc) eff hrs"
I have a CFI friend who likes to ask his students to plan a flight to Rhinelander, and then ask what the weather minimums are there. He's never been able to find where the effective hours of Class E airspace for KRHI are published. We searched the A/FD, and we also called FSS to see if they had a NOTAM on it, but they didn't know.
Do you know where this information is published?
John.
That's why I like to use Danville.....the scenario is the same....(I believe) The effective hours is ...there isn't any....It depends on weather. If you are passing by, and need to use the airport.......how do you know you can? I've gotten a whole hour out of a BFR on just this one topic.....I also, have had trouble finding eff. hrs. The reason for the class E to the ground is a company making scheduled flights to that airport.....I imagine that the only way to really know the eff. hrs. is have a schedule of that companies flights.....I'm sure there is more ....but that is a start.....Brad
Thanks for all the imput on Class E! Very well covered.
Three area's of Class E Airspace for me to remember.
1. Above 1200 ft AGL is Class E . Below 1200 ft AGL is Class G.
2. Transitioning to an Instrument Approach Airport (solid magenta line around airport), Class E will drop from 1200 to 700 AGL. Below 700 ft is Class G.
3. If the Airport has a broken magenta line around it, then Class E might or might not go to the ground.
If the weather is bad (visibility 3 miles or less / ceiling 1000 ft or less), then Class E goes to the surface. If weather is a good VFR day, Class E is down to 700 and Class G is down to surface.
KRHI has a note on the sectional chart: "See NOTAMs/Directory for Class E (sfc) eff hrs"
I have a CFI friend who likes to ask his students to plan a flight to Rhinelander, and then ask what the weather minimums are there. He's never been able to find where the effective hours of Class E airspace for KRHI are published. We searched the A/FD, and we also called FSS to see if they had a NOTAM on it, but they didn't know.
Do you know where this information is published?
AIRSPACE: CLASS E svc Mon–Fri 1200–0400Z‡, Sat 1200–0130Z‡, Sun 1600–0400Z‡ other times CLASS G.
Sorry it took a couple of weeks. Missed your post. Been doing much Skiplane flying? Lakes here are pretty much shot with the warm weather/no snow/and rain this past week.
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