The International Cessna^® 170 Association

George, reading your article on proper oil to use in aircraft engines,, I can't argue the difference or advantage of using aircraft oil,. I would Seriously consider driving to Spicewood so that you could Show me that automotive oil can dissolve Copper,, providing you provide the beer of course,, it's gonna take a few centuries " it AIN'T gonna happen George",, where do you get this stuff ???,, sorta like your 100LL fixation against auto gas no lead which is the Best thing to happen to the internal combustion engine. Remember when the average car engine (on leaded gas) was worn out at 100,000 miles?? now they go 3 times that far,, the antique c-145's can go much farther too if the fuel fed to them doesn't have lead which stays in the combustion chamber , flakes off into the oil and valve guides or slips past the rings.
While I am Typing,,,,
I read how people here want more and more horse power,, usually wanting to switch to a lycoming 360 engine. with the Federal B S on getting certification, I keep wondering WHY someone hasen't tried a modification on the 0-300. Raise the compression from 7:1 to 8.5:1, clean up the ports around the valve area, STOP running the intake air thru the oil pan ( get an oil cooler) ( and if you want heat do it BEFORE the air gets to the carburater, that would eliminate carb icing) then bump the timing to 32 degrees, this with 92 octane Mogas would 'perk' these engines past the Lycoming 0-360 perfomance,, with out the weight or vibration problems......and the engine would run for many healthy hours.. MY opinion
Dwain

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u14T5wzicqw




W.

Dwain,
That engine mod sounds like a good project for you. Why don't you just whip up a prototype for a submission to the FUZZ. As soon as you get their approval, we'll all jump on the band wagon with you. If you can keep the cost down to where the average C-170 owner can swing it.you may even be able to break even.
Of course, if you keep the engine at 300 ci. you'll have to give a pretty husky bump the BMEP and the RPM to mke up for the sixty cube advantage the Lyc has.
On the other hand, you could bore it out to 360 ci., change the intake system and put an oil cooler on it and----but wait, isn't that what Continental has already done and called it the IO-360.

The copper problem was not my own data. It was proven by White Labs in Dallas, and reported on by Aviation Consumer, regarding oils with TTP or TCP (phosphates) in them. Phosphate additives are common in auto oils for EP additive. The same warning holds true for gear oils in gearboxes that use "yellow" metals for bearing/bushings. You're right about the time it takes. It won't do it overnight, but many many aircraft engines sit 24/7 and fly less than 100 hrs/year, and they are the ones that suffer from it. Those engines that are in high-usage are overhauled with new parts quickly-enough not to be bothered by it.

Dwain, I've been misunderstood if anyone thinks I am opposed to using autogas because it does not have lead. I am not opposed to using unleaded fuel, and I even promote the idea, and agree that engines last much longer without lead. I am opposed to autogas in aeroplanes because of recipie (content, particularly solvents and alcohol), shipping, storage, handling, incompatibility with aviation materials, and poor quality-control issues.

DKent

I was just kind of messin with ya on the Daffy and Bugs thing......that what all the gurus do when you start talking oil.......anyway I can follow you somewhat, if you had a brand spankin new o-300 and only ran it 25-30 hours a year, how long would it last regardless of what kind of oil it has ....as long as it has oil??????
Any time someone puts something in writting, like George did in his article, it gives a chance for everyone critique it. I liked the article, it did create some thoughts and ideas which is good. I will always spar with George a little, don't tell anyone but I think he kind of likes it
You had some good thoughts on the engine also...keep thinking that's how things move forward.

To all who contributed to the 2nd quarter "170 News"....it was very good.....thanks for taking the time to write something

W.