The International Cessna^® 170 Association

LORAN-C Phase-Out Starts Feb. 8

The Coast Guard says LORAN-C isn't necessary for maritime navigation and the Department of Homeland Security says it's not needed as a backup for GPS, so by Feb. 8, you may not have it available to you, either. That has some pilots very concerned about the lack of a land-based redundancy for GPS. That doesn't seem to concern authorities who call it "an antiquated system no longer required by the armed forces, the transportation sector or the nation's security interests." The decision considers that LORAN-C is only used by "a small percentage of the population," and that those users "will have to shift to GPS or other systems." The bottom line is this: "LORAN-C is no longer prudent use of taxpayer funds and is not allowed under the 2010 DHS Appropriation Act," according to the Coast Guard.

Officially, "In accordance with the DHS Appropriations Act, the U.S. Coast Guard will terminate the transmission of all U.S. LORAN-C signals effective 2000Z 08 Feb 2010," writes the Coast Guard. The Coast Guard's Federal Register announcement clarifies that the Feb. 8 date is just the beginning of the shutdown and some signals may still be floating around after the date. According to the Federal Register notice, LORAN stations are expected to cease all LORAN-C transmissions by Oct. 1, 2010.

Anybody still using Loran?

I am sorry to read this. Loran C is a much more cost-effective system than the VOR systems around the country. Each VOR station requires regular monitoring and calibration and maintenance and is a widely-scattered system which is less accurate the farther from the station the receiver is due to angular deviation, not to mention the limitations of line-of-sight.
Very Disappointing.

RIP LORAN. It's a feat of technology that served navigators well for half a century, anyway. This reminds me of the museum at the Greenwich Observatory in England, which has a progression of equipment from the earliest seagoing timepieces through increasing degrees of sophistication, because in the old days, navigation was all about having the time accurate to the second or so. The last display case contains the first Garmin portable GPS receiver -- after which Greenwich has no more to say.

Bonnie Dahl wrote a very good book on how Loran-C works: http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Loran- ... 0932647009. It's a good read, and by the time you read about all the things that can affect the accuracy of the LORAN signals, you may wonder how it even worked at all. You and I never would have used it in our personal aircraft, but for microcomputer chips developed in the 1980s. Before that, navigators had to measure microsecond delays on an oscilloscope, basically, and transfer that data to a chart marked with lines of microsecond distances from the LORAN antennas.

If I had a working LORAN receiver, I'd be tempted to fire it up and watch the decommissioning, along with a glass of good scotch.

I got my first Loran in I think 1986 or so. It was an Apollo 618C, 3" inst hole installation. I though I had died and gone to heaven. If you went "GO TO" using a waypoint in the database, it would actually get you to within 5-10 miles of your intended spot on a good day and if you used a "user waypoint" that the box saved itself, it would go back to that exact spot. I had not even heard of GPS in those days.

I remember waiting on all the chains to be up and running in Alaska so we could have "precision" navigation where none existed before. It was the start of lazy navigation and I loved it. The only problem with Loran was the more you needed it, ie, on a rainy or snowy day when the conditions were lower than normal, was excatly when it would stop working due to static or whatever. It always worked great when the sun was shining.

I agree with John, RIP but I hope we don't regret its passing.

The BIG news here is the Department of Home land Security is quoted but NOT the FAA. That in itself is scary.

lowNslow wrote:LORAN-C Phase-Out Starts Feb. 8

Anybody still using Loran?

Yup. Although I've gotten lazy along with 99.44% of all other pilots out there and adopted GPS as primary nav, I always have all operable receivers in the airplane on and "pointing at something" useful. In the not too distant past, I had the Garmin 296, King KX 155, Apollo 604, and Narco 141 ALL pointing at something on or near the route. That's in addition to "finger on map". The 141 died a couple years ago, and I finally had it removed last annual. My skin just isn't thick enough to take the ribbing I'd get spending money on an ADF! Now it looks like I'm down to only two electronic means of navigation.

jrenwick wrote:Bonnie Dahl wrote a very good book on how Loran-C works: http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Loran- ... 0932647009. It's a good read, and by the time you read about all the things that can affect the accuracy of the LORAN signals, you may wonder how it even worked at all.

If you ever read a detailed technical description of GPS, you'll wonder the same thing. I figure that it's that last 99% of complexity that gives the last 1% of accuracy.

jrenwick wrote:If I had a working LORAN receiver, I'd be tempted to fire it up and watch the decommissioning, along with a glass of good scotch.

I wonder if there is a decomissioning schedule on line somewhere. It's not often there'd be a good excuse to roll out the airplane and climb up in it with a bottle of Crown Royal.

Miles

I still had an old Airnav unit installed until a couple of years ago when I removed it. When comparing the Loran with the portable GPS unit I have, I was amazed how close they were. I never thought they were that accurate. When you got close to your GOTO point the Loran would get a little dicey but I think this was more the result of having no moving map feature to give perspective.

cessna170bdriver wrote:

jrenwick wrote:Bonnie Dahl wrote a very good book on how Loran-C works: http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Loran- ... 0932647009. It's a good read, and by the time you read about all the things that can affect the accuracy of the LORAN signals, you may wonder how it even worked at all.

If you ever read a detailed technical description of GPS, you'll wonder the same thing. I figure that it's that last 99% of complexity that gives the last 1% of accuracy.

Bonnie Dahl also has a book on GPS, but I didn't find it as interesting as the one on LORAN. It's here: http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Users- ... 0932647122

One thing that stuck in my mind is that the very weak GPS satellite signal identifies itself with a string of pseudo-randomly distributed bits, because that's easier to pick out of the dominant noise than a periodic signal would be. Very clever!

I guess its the right thing to do to decommisson loran but I am sorry to see it go. When I bought my plane 16 years ago it had an Apollo 618 and I used it up until about 2 years ago when I updated to Anywhere map to get FM WX. I guess I cant complain though because they originally were going to shut the signals down in 2000. My Apollo still works so I guess maybe for old times sake I will go use it one more time before I have a worthless piece of dead weight in the panel. Bill K

For Sale:
Apollo 618C, like new, works great (except when you really need it), user waypoint file includes several "secret" fishing and hunting spots, original box, user manual, installation manual, antenna, all wiring components. Will sell for what I have in it, $1500.00 or best offer.

Buy now while you can still use it!

hilltop170 wrote:For Sale:
Apollo 618C, like new, works great (except when you really need it), user waypoint file includes several "secret" fishing and hunting spots, original box, user manual, installation manual, antenna, all wiring components. Will sell for what I have in it, $1500.00 or best offer.

Buy now while you can still use it!

Richard, I bet you couldn't sell it now even if you moved the decimal point two places to the left! I think I'll start my own navigation musuem on this side of the pond. I already have 4 or 5 artifacts, and one more on the way...

Miles

hilltop170 wrote:For Sale:
Apollo 618C, like new, works great (except when you really need it), user waypoint file includes several "secret" fishing and hunting spots, original box, user manual, installation manual, antenna, all wiring components. Will sell for what I have in it, $1500.00 or best offer.

Buy now while you can still use it!

Put it on eBay, just like that, for laughs! Who knows, it'll probably sell!

gahorn wrote:Your statement implys that you believe Loran chains are about to be shut down. Not true. The non-aviation use of Loran is far greater than aviation use. Every Public Electric Utility uses it for timing power switchovers. Most marine navigators use it either primary or secondary. ICAO navigation treaties require a secondary nav system to GPS. Guess which one? (In fact, new Loran chains are being installed or are already becoming operational in Northern Europe, Mediterranean, Russia, China, etc. etc.)

gahorn wrote:Loran is here for a long, long time yet.

George, any hot stock tips for me? Seriously, what about ICAO treaties requiring a secondary nav system to GPS? ADF perhaps?

n2582d wrote: Seriously, what about ICAO treaties requiring a secondary nav system to GPS? ADF perhaps?

Glad I kept my old Bendix T-12 ADF, just in case I need to fly across the Atlantic someday.

n2582d wrote:

gahorn wrote:Your statement implys that you believe Loran chains are about to be shut down. Not true. The non-aviation use of Loran is far greater than aviation use. Every Public Electric Utility uses it for timing power switchovers. Most marine navigators use it either primary or secondary. ICAO navigation treaties require a secondary nav system to GPS. Guess which one? (In fact, new Loran chains are being installed or are already becoming operational in Northern Europe, Mediterranean, Russia, China, etc. etc.)

gahorn wrote:Loran is here for a long, long time yet.

George, any hot stock tips for me? Seriously, what about ICAO treaties requiring a secondary nav system to GPS? ADF perhaps?

Well...please note that my comments quoted ABOVE are dated by gahorn » Wed Nov 13, 2002 12:02 pm (I based those comments upon an FAA public announcement in conjunction with a Coast Guard policy statement. I guess that's what I get for believing the administration back in 2002 !!)