The International Cessna^® 170 Association

Monitoring 121.5 as a habit brought me an opportunity to comment on a recently-popular call-out on CTAF freq's....."Bonanza 1234 on 3-mile final to runway 12....Any traffic in the area, please advise..."



This clown thinks it's all other aircraft's responsibility to make themselves aware to the newcomer in the area. This is pure B.S. ! It is NOT the responsibility of existing traffic to advise the newcomer...it's the arriving aircraft's responsibility to LOOK, WATCH, LISTEN for other traffic and merge into that existing traffic's flow.

I couldn't resist the opportunity to take a poke at the guy: "Bonanza 1234, I think that the traffic at ABC airport is most likely on the proper CTAF ....not the emergency freq...at least the ones with a RADIO are! Hope you don't hit any of them!"

Come on, folks! It is NOT a proper transmission to ask others to advise YOU of their position....it's YOUR responsibility to adivse OTHERS... AFTER you have already monitored the frequency an appropriate amount of time listening for traffic.... AND you should enter the pattern somewhere PRIOR to final unless it is IFR and you are on an approach clearance.

I'm comforted knowing that none of OUR members are guilty of this poor behavior.

This must be an April Fools post because I could not agree more with you George. Creeps me out like finger nails on a chalk board every time I hear someone make that transmission.

I usually forgive the offender because at least they have alerted me of their presents and I can avoid them or instruct them I may be in their way for that 5 mile straight in their planning.

One rule for CTAF transmissions is to make sure that what ever you say contains necessary or useful information. "Traffic in the area please advise" has no information content, so it's simply a waste of air time that others may need to use.

How did this horrible habit get started, anyway???

jrenwick wrote:How did this horrible habit get started, anyway???

Certainly wasn't a helicopter pilot.

This subject is timely for me. I'm just about to create a document of suggested comms for my students. I have been pointing out to them how silly some of the common calls are, and the lack of useful information they contain. My personal favorite is "Bonanza XYZ departing RWY 16.", or "Bonanza XYZ landing RWY 16." No position, altitude, or intentions for how they are entering or leaving the pattern. I usually have to pimp the offending pilot two or three times before I get all of the info. I have also heard the "...any traffic report" call, and just shrug my shoulders and report my position. What can you do?
My other pet peeve is the non-standard pattern entry (right patterns when a left pattern is standard, entering on a straight in, and entering on a base).
Last week I actually admonished one gentleman (in as nice of a way as possible) for flying a right pattern. He was reporting a right base at the same time as some one else was flying a left base. I pointed out that we fly left patterns and that he might want to go around. I had a 14 year old future airline pilot onboard with me with about 15 of his relatives on the ground watching, and I really did not want them to see this craziness. It worked out and I don't think the admonhished pilot was angry at me, but geez!
I try to follow the simple radio comm format of "who you are talking to, who you are, where you are, and what you want to do". This is a bit of an over-simplification and not always entirely appropriate but its a good start and works for me. Anyone else have any good info?
Fly safe everyone!
David

dacker1 wrote:... I have also heard the "...any traffic report" call, and just shrug my shoulders and report my position. What can you do? ...

Try: "I THINK I'M RIGHT BENEATH YOU! GO AROUND! GO AROUND!" Maybe they'll eventually get the point. (TIC= tongue-in-cheek)

jrenwick wrote:...How did this horrible habit get started, anyway???

It's my belief that it started with regional-carriers in the late-nineties following the presentation given at the Regional Air Line Assn convention where the accident/lawsuit between a regional and a King Air in IL* collided at mid-field was addressed, and the cause was held to be improper radio useage. Therefore some chief pilot instituted the policy at his carrier and it caught on like wildfire ....sounding very professional to a bunch of wet-behind-the-ears-future-airline pilots, and intended to sound sufficient to shed liability upon any others who fail to respond.

It sucks and does none of the things imagined, and now we have an entire generation of habitual-mimicry.

* http://www.ntsb.gov/pressrel/1997/970701-2.htm

Wow, man that was close. Had me going. For a minute there I thought George was going to PROVE a helicopter pilot start it. Not surprised it was one of THOSE darn chief pilots.

I hear other unnecessary comments on CTAF that should be discouraged. A pilot will make a good position report such as 2 mile 45 to downwind and another pilot will call out that he/she doesn't see him. This leads to an exchange where you can hear the tension in their voices as if they are worried about an imminent collision. It also ties up the frequency for others. I try and teach students to listen and to take action if they are seriously concerned about a conflicting aircraft they can not see. I suggest that it is sometimes a good idea to exit the pattern, fly clear, and re enter using the proper pattern entry when the traffic clears out which it almost always does. You hear alot of different stuff on the radio and I try and not let it get my blood pressure up. We need to keep our eyes/ears open and head on a swivel.

gahorn wrote:... It's my belief that it started with regional-carriers in the late-nineties ...

That's probably about when I first heard it. There used to be a regional that flew Beech 1900s into Fort Collins - Loveland airport. They'd pop up on frequency and ask the rest of us to "please advise".

I think the statement is just irritating more than anything. It implies that the calling pilot hasn't been listening and instead wishes you to tell him your there now that they are ready to listen. Of course I'd hope that is not the case. But I'm afraid it is specially with the faster movers coming off IFR (not IMC) to a VFR to close to the airport.

When this happens and I've been making appropriate position reports I seldom chime in with another one at their special request. Instead I wait until my next regular report specially when these requests come from the average GA pilot in 120 kt machine 10 miles out which means they won't even be at the airport for 5 minutes and I will be on the ground.

I also do not like it when two pilots tie up the frequency with the "oh no I don't see you where did you say you were?" call. Again most of the time these are GA planes approaching at 100 kts or so. It would be different if it was 200 kts. Pretty much if you can't see an airplane in your windshield your not going to hit something. Be alert. Look below you. Make a clearing turn if you need to. And as Voorheesh said simply leave the pattern or make a courtesy 360.

Which brings up another pet peeve. If you make a position report stating your over a water tower or other easily identifable land mark, be over it. Not just in sight of it. If your a mile to the south of it say that. I hear position reports given all the time where it is stated a plane is "over a river or a road", then 3 minutes later they report being right over the same land mark. I know their not hovering.

I seem to remember being taught this as a student in the late 70's. I do not remember it being a result of the Quincy IL runway collision. This story really hit home as this is my home airport where I grew up and soloed.

Useless call that I don't use anymore.

Not to throw spears at folks trying to make a living in aviation, but it seems that I hear this useless horrible phrase uttered from the lips of the pilot-not-flying when a commuter airliner comes to land at a nontowered airport. Hopefully we can all grow older and learn -- never give up an opportunity to be quiet and listen on the radio.
-S

Another radio peeve I have is the addition of "XYZ traffic" at the tail end of a blind transmission at a non-towered airport. It should be " XYZ traffic, Cessna 22Z left base for 34, XYZ" The first "XYZ is an address to all who are flying at or near XYZ airport, (they are traffic) and the last XYZ is to tell anyone listening which airport you are flying to, from, or around. And I also hate it when they omit the airport identifier at the end, because you always have to ask your copilot "where did he say he was"

This might be a topic for a new thread if so please move accordingly.
Yesterday returning to home airport paying attention to traffic in the pattern the aircraft were using rwy 32.
I always watch smoke and water (ponds and lakes) for wind direction. The wind was at 180 and getting stronger every minute.
No one would change the pattern to 14 but just played follow the leader downwind 32.
What is the proper way to get peolpe to use the wind aided rwy and get pilots to notice wind direction.

The "active" runway is the runway "in use" by existing traffic...for whatever reason they've chosen it. (The airport operator or owner has requested pilots use it for some reason, or perhaps it's a locally preferred runway due to noise abatement, or wildlife area at the opposite end...or ...whatever...

To "get" them to change the runway in use will require your contacting existing traffic and advise them of your reason for wishing to use a different runway and coaxing them into agreeing with you. "XYZ traffic, wind is now reported out of 180, favoring RWY 14. Without objection, I plan to allow the traffic on final to complete their landing ...and then I plan to make left traffic for Rwy 14. Anyone object to changing the runway?" (or something similar)

If they have a reason for not switching runways, they will have the opportunity to advise you and you can decide whether to enter existing traffic... wait until existing traffic has landed/left the area.... or go somewhere else. You do NOT have the authority to interrupt existing traffic patters simply because you think you have reason to do so. IMHO