The International Cessna^® 170 Association

While planning for the upcoming San Diego convention, I need some serious input from some of you west coast types regarding the feasiblity of making a trip after the convention to Chino (CNO). A fellow pilot friend just drove up there from SD and visited the two museums and just insists I have to fly up there while in CA. My CA flying thus far has been limited to Tahachapi and that area. Looking at a map it appears at least one restriced area (Camp Pendleton) an some mountainous areas. If I were to go I would then want to go direct (or as direct as possible) to Ryan Field (RYN) in Tucson as I am going to revisit DM & Pima County Museum. Sure looks like a lot of restricted zones on that almost 400 mile route too. Give me some advise, even if its not to do it.

From San Diego to Chino is absolutely no problem. If you fly straight up the 15 freeway, you avoid all restricted airspace and you get a great way navigate (a downwind departure will have you on top of the 15 in about a mile). A left turn about 5 miles past the 91 freeway will put you straight in for the parrallels at Chino. Breakfast at Flo's at Chino is pretty darn tasty!!! Abeam the south end of lake elsinor, just keep it east of the freeway to avoid skydiving operations (they REALLY appreciate advisories on 122.9 as they can get very busy). I may join you if your going to the museum. As far as getting out to Ryan, (I always try to stay over freeways which doesn't take but a few more minutes and almost always leaves you an option), the 10 freeway will keep you clear of any restricted airspace and drop you right in the backyard of RYN. Just be sure to get a clearance through Phoenix class B which shouldn't be a problem, or go around it. Otherwise, out of the banning pass east of Chino, V16 to V94 to V66 will get the job done just as well. One caution on the Banning pass, it can get very busy, and windy through there so keep your eyes open.

Lots of folks I talk to are very intimidated by SoCal's busy airspace. My advise is to try and always get flight following. It is much more common than not for pilots to get flight following, even on just a short hop 15 miles away. SoCal approach is almost always VERY accomodating and willing to help. They probably see more VFR traffic than IFR. The airspace down there is no doubt a little confusing at best and I find that since I rarely fly with GPS, flying by major freeways is the best for navigating and finding landmarks. Staying clear of airspace vertically becomes the bigger challenge sometimes.

LBPilot82 wrote:...Lots of folks I talk to are very intimidated by SoCal's busy airspace. My advise is to try and always get flight following. It is much more common than not for pilots to get flight following, even on just a short hop 15 miles away. SoCal approach is almost always VERY accomodating and willing to help. They probably see more VFR traffic than IFR...

But you will have to speed up that slooooow Texxxxxas Draaaaawwwwll a bit, Frank.

LBPilot82 wrote:Abeam the south end of lake elsinor, just keep it east of the freeway to avoid skydiving operations (they REALLY appreciate advisories on 122.9 as they can get very busy).

Definitely use 122.9 (it is listed on the sectional) approaching Lake Elsinore (unless you are on FF - if so, ATC will keep you advised on sky dive ops). SkyDive Elsinore is very busy 7 days a week and they do ineed appreciate folks talking on the advisory freq. My 170 is up at CNO right now getting the annual done, so I've been doing the MYF - CNO run ALOT lately. At 170 speeds, it will probably take you around and hour and 15 min.

When I go up there VFR, I usually ask MYF for a right DW departure and go out toward SEE, then work my way up under the B toward Ramona, but I also use a handheld GPS. Approaching Lake Elsinore, I tend to stay on the west side of the lake - along the ridge line. That is a much more direct route and keeps you clear of the March airspace. Just need to announce your position and watch for any glider trafffic.

LBPilot82 wrote: Lots of folks I talk to are very intimidated by SoCal's busy airspace. My advise is to try and always get flight following. It is much more common than not for pilots to get flight following, even on just a short hop 15 miles away. SoCal approach is almost always VERY accomodating and willing to help. They probably see more VFR traffic than IFR. The airspace down there is no doubt a little confusing at best and I find that since I rarely fly with GPS, flying by major freeways is the best for navigating and finding landmarks. Staying clear of airspace vertically becomes the bigger challenge sometimes.

SoCal is indeed pretty accomodating for VFR folks - a heck of alot more than Phoenix Approach! Getting a clearance through the B is not usually a problem. If you are departing MYF and want to go the direct route through the B, ask the ground controller for a Miramar transition on your initial callup and they may be able facilitate - it allows a much more direct route to CNO.

Fearless Tower wrote:... At 170 speeds, it will probably take you around and hour and 15 min...

So Frank, how long will it take you, maybe an hour and a half?

(Sorry, I tried to resist, but this one was just too easy...)

So Miles, you don't think those So Cal controllers can speak Texan? I'll just tell them that if they think I speak slow, that I also hear slow so streach it out a bit Now Miles, why is it going to take an hour and a half to two hours to fly 85 miles? Is this some kind of So Cal math I am already thinking my best bet is to hook up with LBPilot82 or others that might be going to Chino and follow them as a flight of 2, 3, etc Sounds like its a bit more complicated than flying in the DFW airspace. My G P & S might not get me there by myself I sure don't want to come face-to-face with some heavy iron, or light iron or maybe end up getting an F-16 escort

Of course, if we do end up flying to CNO together, I'll most definately have to throttle way back to stay with the pace of a GREEN airplane!!!

The Mrs. and I are still working out the logistics for the trip. I, or we, may be picking up a friend in fullerton, and also meeting up with 1 or 2 more 170's. Doug (canav8) may be joining up as well. I sure would like to hit the museum at CNO, it's been way too long.

Miles, LBPilot82 thinks he is joking when he says he might have to throttle back for Ole Pokey Tell him how slow it is since you have flown with me And its not just the green paint because when I flew w/ you & Ron back from Lancaster Ole Pokey was blue & silver, BUT it did have a RED stripe on the verticle and that didn't seem to help Maybe its the shade of red

170C wrote:So Miles, you don't think those So Cal controllers can speak Texan? I'll just tell them that if they think I speak slow, that I also hear slow so streach it out a bit

It's not the controllers as much as some of those impatient SoCal pilots waiting for you to finish so they can get a word in edgewise. That's assmuming you were quick enough on the mic key to get a word in yourself.

170C wrote:Now Miles, why is it going to take an hour and a half to two hours to fly 85 miles? Is this some kind of So Cal math

No math involved; I had no idea what the distance was, just that since Fearless Tower said "At 170 speeds, it will probably take you around and hour and 15 min", I figured that it would take you a bit longer.

170C wrote: I am already thinking my best bet is to hook up with LBPilot82 or others that might be going to Chino and follow them as a flight of 2, 3, etc Sounds like its a bit more complicated than flying in the DFW airspace. My G P & S might not get me there by myself I sure don't want to come face-to-face with some heavy iron, or light iron or maybe end up getting an F-16 escort

You might tentatively add me to that list, assuming you are going after the convention?. Chino isn't too far off my route home.

170C wrote:Miles, LBPilot82 thinks he is joking when he says he might have to throttle back for Ole Pokey Tell him how slow it is since you have flown with me And its not just the green paint because when I flew w/ you & Ron back from Lancaster Ole Pokey was blue & silver, BUT it did have a RED stripe on the verticle and that didn't seem to help Maybe its the shade of red

After Ron and I landed in that crappy weather in Summersville, WV on the way from home Lancaster, we did discuss whether we'd have time for lunch before you got there.

If we go to Chino it would be on Saturday following the convention. Yea, I recall that flight into WV quite well. There wasn't much room between the cloud deck and the top of those hills. You guys got far enough ahead of me that I couldn't see you. Now, here I am in VERY unfamiliar territory, trying to follow two guys in fast airplanes, lose site of them & my Loran crapps out and since I was depending on following you guys & my Loran, plus the weather and I haven't been paying attention to the sectional I saw a landing strip on top of one of those hills and gave serious consideration to landing there, but didn't do so----another About the time I got well past that runway (there wasn't anything anywhere close to that runway, just an isolated strip) one of you got me on the radio and gave me a heading and terrain to follow to get to the airport where you landed. GEEZE that was scary Plus at one point when the Loran went north, it didn't have sense enough to go south, I got into the clouds trying to get it to reinitialize My co-pilot was sleeping through most of that until I woke her to give some minor assistance. We were two very happy folks to see that runway and get on terra firma That was one of those times I said if I got through it I would get my instrument rating---------didn't do it I have had another few times I made that same statement

Oh Frank so many thoughts come into mind when you tell that story. I've been were you were on occasion. Usually by myself but I have also lead a flight of two and three Cubs through and over the ridge lines we call mountains here in PA. And of course at work but that is a bit of a different story.

I'm sure the other guys didn't realize the pickle you were getting into as they forged ahead. I could be wrong but it's been my observation that flying with some of the folks in the association means you can talk to them on the radio, not necessarily see them. Remember Jim's story of his flight with George last convention where they flew "together" but ended up at two different airports in two different states.

As for my flights with my Cub friends, I have the fastest plane which makes sense since it is GREEN and white and theirs are yellow. I don't fly out of their site. In weather that is not the best we brief what we are going to do and what will be our turn around point and where we will try to end up. Of course we don't always plan ahead so well but we try.

170C wrote:back from Lancaster Ole Pokey was blue & silver, BUT it did have a RED stripe on the verticle and that didn't seem to help Maybe its the shade of red

I suppose Ol Pokey is a perfect example that once Red it's hard to change those slow tendencies.

Bruce, I think you have something there

It's amazing the situations some of us get ourselves into, both flying and otherwise

FWIW, I just did the trip yesterday VFR going up there to check on my plane. In a 172C with O-300, it was exactly 1 hr and 10 min from startup at Gibbs to shutdown at Yanks Air Museum.