UPS Pilots Sue the FAA

[blueldr]

I see where our saviours of aviation in the FAA have stepped on their d--ks again by "disincluding" freight pilots in their new pilot "fatigue" rules. They're determined to relegate freight pilots to be second class. The UPS pilots have sued the FAA and I only hope they can sink it into them deep enough to where most of them can join their ex recent leader in the unemployment line.

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

BL this crew rest is a big issue and has been for some time and I believe the FAA is not done. There will be changes coming for 135 Operators and maybe breaking it down further for Helicopter Emergency Medical Services (HEMS). I'll bet the freight operators will also see changes for the better.

I for one see the FAA acting in a more responsible manner by finally separating each segment of commercial operations and recognizing they are different and need different rules. As it stands today when I fly HEMS I fall under the exact same crew rest as a 121 pilot. Yet there is no way I'm going to ever hit many of the flight times per duty day that trigger extra rest. About the only thing we ever hit is the 14 hour duty day (which in some cases can be extended) or more correctly stated the 10 hour rest period in the last 24 hours.

I can be up all night (14 hours) only fly 2.0 hours in 4 missions. Then start my rest period that includes the 3 hour round trip to and from work leaving only 7 hours for actual rest, and be right back at work looking at a 14 hour over night duty. And it is legal to do this night after night after night as long as I get 13 - 24 hour rest periods in a calendar quarter. So I could work 78 - 14 hour night shifts in a row legally.

[GAHorn]

BL this crew rest is a big issue and has been for some time and I believe the FAA is not done. There will be changes coming for 135 Operators and maybe breaking it down further for Helicopter Emergency Medical Services (HEMS). I'll bet the freight operators will also see changes for the better.

I for one see the FAA acting in a more responsible manner by finally separating each segment of commercial operations and recognizing they are different and need different rules. As it stands today when I fly HEMS I fall under the exact same crew rest as a 121 pilot. Yet there is no way I'm going to ever hit many of the flight times per duty day that trigger extra rest. About the only thing we ever hit is the 14 hour duty day (which in some cases can be extended) or more correctly stated the 10 hour rest period in the last 24 hours.

I can be up all night (14 hours) only fly 2.0 hours in 4 missions. Then start my rest period that includes the 3 hour round trip to and from work leaving only 7 hours for actual rest, and be right back at work looking at a 14 hour over night duty. And it is legal to do this night after night after night as long as I get 13 - 24 hour rest periods in a calendar quarter. So I could work 78 - 14 hour night shifts in a row legally.

...and none of that includes the hours you and I spend here working on the FORUMS, either, does it, Bruce?

I do indeed agree with bluEldr on this. It's patently ridiculous for the authorities to consider freight pilots at less risk than air carrier pilots! IF NOTHING ELSE...FAA should recognize that freight pilots are out there flying parallel approaches RIGHT NEXT to those better-rested 121 crews, not to mention RIGHT ABOVE the rest of the world! AND IN THE DARK! Grrrr....

(And...not to let an opportunity to dig at bluEldr... His daughter needs to spend more time in BED!)

[blueldr]

Geezus George, my cup runneth over! You agree with me.

I also have first hand information that the FedEx pilots may well join the UPS pilots in their law suit to determine if their lives are as inportant as those on the passenger air carriers.

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

I do indeed agree with bluEldr on this. It's patently ridiculous for the authorities to consider freight pilots at less risk than air carrier pilots! IF NOTHING ELSE...FAA should recognize that freight pilots are out there flying parallel approaches RIGHT NEXT to those better-rested 121 crews, not to mention RIGHT ABOVE the rest of the world! AND IN THE DARK! Grrrr....

You forgot about the HEMS single pilot on his 7 straight day in his 13th hour on duty shooting at approach in front of the Airline and Freight guys.

[GAHorn]

...
You forgot about the HEMS single pilot on his 7 straight day in his 13th hour on duty shooting at approach in front of the Airline and Freight guys.

No, I didn't. I figure that another helicopter crash keeps job security/demand for EMS helicopter pilots at a keen level, thereby increasing their wages and job opportunities.

[russfarris]

As a former freight dog who has spent many an hour strapped to a DC-8 somewhere over the Pacific, I'm appalled at the double standard here, purely because of economics. It's the same mindset the FAA had when they exempted the cargo airlines from the TCAS requirement for several years. So much for the "One Level of Safety" slogan the FAA had a few years back.

Back in about 1983 I flew a DC-8 on a military contract cargo flight from Yokota AFB in Japan to McChord AFB near Seattle; almost a 10 hour flight. When we got there, we got a message from the company informing us that instead of going to the hotel, we were to ferry the empty aircraft to MIA, under Part 91 - perfectly legal. And with that particular non-sched you didn't refuse a flight because you you tired (blueldr will know exactly what I'm talking about.) 15 hours of flight and over 20 hours on that airplane - we were talking to ourselves on approach.

I think the FAA should be ashamed of themselves.

Russ Farris

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

...
You forgot about the HEMS single pilot on his 7 straight day in his 13th hour on duty shooting at approach in front of the Airline and Freight guys.

No, I didn't. I figure that another helicopter crash keeps job security/demand for EMS helicopter pilots at a keen level, thereby increasing their wages and job opportunities.

I know your being smart George but unfortunately the reality is that HEMS operations, because of the amount of accidents, have been and will continue to be a target for knee jerk regulatory FAA action. You should know that we can legally fly our 170s is worse VFR weather than I can legally fly a HEMS mission. Just seems backwards.

[voorheesh]

I think if you research this subject you will find that congress mandated that the FAA take steps to require more crew rest for passenger airline crews after the Colgan Air accident. Further research will show that the FAA always publishes a Notice of Proposed Rule Making (NPRM) in the Federal Register prior to implementing a rule and anyone may comment on it. The FAA is then required to analyze all of these comments and make a written determination/response for each one. These are also published in the Federal Register when the rule is enacted or not enacted as the case may be. This is how "administrative regulation" is promulgated in this country.

I sometimes wonder if those who complain about these rules ever read and comment on them when there is time to actually have input. I know that the management of federal Express and UPS do and I would assume their unions also. The notion that the FAA acts alone in rulemaking and makes decisions in some sort of vacuum is false.

Best wishes for the new year to everyone!

[GAHorn]

Voorhees makes an excellent point. The UPS/FedEx/ETC unions and other pilot groups surely had rec'd prior notice...however... like others of this type complaint against gov't, lawyers, liberals, right-wingers, religous extremism, etc...... those who endlessly complain are often the same who fail to inform themselves (except of the kneejer radio-hosts opinion) and never vote.

Regardless, FAA is behaving two-faced on this issue and it shouldn't take a law suit to re-focus them on what should be the obvious "intent of congress."

Here's the rule:

FAR Final Rule Pilot Rest.pdf