how about price

[valt]

Thanks for all of the helpful responses to my "'52 or '56" post. Now, moving on:

Can anyone give me an idea what these things are actually selling for out there? Both are relatively low time (2200 hrs), less than 100 hours on field overhauls, recent structural damage (repaired), recent paint and interior, solid axles, 180 gear, Cleveland wheels and brakes, Scott tail wheel. One has a nice radio and old gauges, the other more up to date panel and a crappy radio. Neither are "show quality" in my view. Both are asking in the high 40s. Vref looks like 42-43.

Any input on what similar planes are selling for in the real world?

[4-Shipp]

I'll probably get shot through the heart ( or at least fed to the fire ants)for bringing this up, but when I was shopping, I used the Trade-a-Plane evaluator quite a bit for reference. If you have a detailed list of equipment on the plane and accurate information on times and condition, it can be pretty precise (IMHO). What I liked were the detailed definitions of interior, exterior and airframe conditions. You have to dig for these a bit on the websight, but they are there. There are also a large number of options that you can specify. I found it offered much better detail than both v-ref and AOPA valuation services.

The one exception I found was the amount TAP reduced the value for damage history. Damage history that was 30-45 years old and was properly repaired and documented didn't seem to have much negative effect on the actual selling price of the planes, despite the markdown by TAP. That is, the planes actually sold for prices closer to the "no-damage history" or "minor-damage hostory"values from TAP.

I seriously considered several airplanes (170s and Maules) that I thought were accurately priced compared to others on the market and based on conversations with knowlegable people, and the TAP values were within 1-2 thousand bucks. It is not a bone fide appraisal, and I wouldn't go to a seller with a copy of the TAP valuation in my hand other than to refute a grossly high asking price, but I think it will accuratley tell you if they are in the ball park.

I will also tell you that the average asking price of a solid "turn-key" 170B went up about $5000 during the year between when we decided to buy one and when we had finally saved the extra money and found a good plane! I still watch the adds pretty close and I haven't seen the inflation as bad this year, but they do keep going up! Good luck!

[GAHorn]

"You cannot pay too much for a really good airplane. You can only pay too much for a poor one.", is the phrase that comes to mind.
Vref and Trade-A-Plane type appraisal systems are designed to lure sellers to advertise with them. Prices in sales brochures and classifieds are not selling prices, they are asking prices. You should decide what kind of airplane you really want and can afford. An average, 50 year-old airplane, will require an ongoing "perpetual-care" program, even it it does have a recent engine.
There is simply no way to evaluate any airplane sight-unseen. There are surprises enough even when a thorough pre-buy/annual is performed on them. Don't get into a hurry. Look at as many airplanes as you can afford. (Just looking at them can get expensive. Keep those costs down by weeding out the "no-way"-s. Look at those nearest home. You can blow a lot of money travelling around and inspecting. Go to air shows. Join TIC170A! There are 11 airplanes offered by TIC170A members in this month's Flypaper, 7 of them are B-models priced from $34K to $51.5K.) Buy the best example you can afford, saving about 10% of the purchase price for the little surprises that always occur about 2 weeks after you get it home. Good luck.

[wa4jr]

Hi Valt,

System dumped my previous post, so here we go again I just bought my first 170 last month, a '54. I paid $33.5K for it. It has 4500 TTAF, 850 SMOH in '74, and about 400 STOH. Damage history in '62 from a storm flipover. Decent paint in 1998, although a few runs/sags in the paint suggest BillyBob used my '54 for practice before going on to the John Deere PPonk gear, solid axles, Cleveland wheels and brakes, Scott tailwheel. Very good interior (9.5). Avionics include an Apollo 604 loran, KX-145 and KX-170B NavComs, and a Narco AT-150 mode C transponder. Recent instruments with the exception of the old AN DG, which is coming out at next annual.

This was the second airplane I looked at, and I used the aircraft evaluator on the TAP site. The first 170 I looked at was a no go because of a GIANT 5 foot door on the left side...left over from the aircraft's agricultural days. I called on two other nice prospects, but they were sold almost as fast as the ads were published. It came down to a choice between the '54 in Alabama and a '55 in Michigan that was going for $28K, but had no radios and slightly higher engine time. I was not able to talk the owner down on my '54. Feeling pressure to snap the '54 up before someone else beat me, I flew down to Alabama and secured the airplane for a pre-buy inspection. Pre-buy revealed nothing more than very minor corrosion and frayed rudder cables and worn rudder pullies. I got the owner to come down in price to cover repairs, but he would not bargain further. Seems there are a folks out there looking for 170s with a vengance. After closing the deal on my '54, owner told me he was offered $10K over his asking price and that the man was willing to buy the aircraft sight unseen

I now have about 22 hours on the plane with nothing more that a snapped exhaust bracket that I was able to weld up and reinstall.

Good luck on your adventure, Valt. From my experience, if you see an airplance you like, you had better make your move fast to secure it for a pre-buy, but make sure you write yourself an out in the conditional sales contract just in case something nasty turns up in the pre-buy inspection. I was really nervous at moving so fast on my '54 to keep someone else from snatching it from me if I waffled and stalled. I just made sure I could back out of the deal if a pre-buy inspection revealed a condition that I found unacceptable.

[zero.one.victor]

Valt, you should go & look at some for sale in lower price ranges. A friend of mine down at Kapowsin (in Pierce County) has a ragwing for sale for around $29K,& there's a 53 B model advertised in GA News for $35K with an Oregon phone number. There's both relatively close by so go check them out. One might be a diamond in the rough.
Back in 97,I was looking for a 170. The first one I looked at was a ragwing for $22K. I passed cuz I wanted a nicer one & didn't mind spending more money to get it. After looking at about 7 others,A's & B's, for up to $30K I ended up going back & buying the ragwing cuz the others weren't much better,certainly not worth the higher price. I lowballed the owner & got it for $18.5K. It's not the prettiest one out there,but it's in good shape,no corrosion ,got the bugs worked out of it,majored it last year,flown it for 5 years & about 800 hours now. It's a keeper!

Eric

[N1478D]

It's faster than a speeding B, can leap over tall buildings, I'll take $49,900 for mine.

[knesbitt]

I did a fair amount of looking and saw a lot of different machines, some "cherries" and some "dogs". It is VERY hard to find the steal anymore because they are so popular but there are some good airplanes out there. I decided for myself that a little extra money was worth it because I was more interested in flying than fixing. I love the airplane so much I figured there is enough to do with a 50 year old airplane just trying to make it look as good as possible without having to repair or add things to mine. I was not that interested in new or fancy electronics, what with all the great handheld GPS's around I would prefer to have mine look more original. The two things that were real important to me were the gear box and the wings. I saw some real ugly repairs to wings and some bad wrinkling around the gear box area. I was very lucky to find a 1955 model with only 2200 hours on it with only minor cosmetic problems. I look forward to having it shiny and pretty very soon and hopefully joining a lot of you at the airshows and fly-ins.
Ken Nesbitt

[zero.one.victor]

Valt,I seem to remember you saying that you were closing in on that 55 model. So----didja buy it?

Eric

[N1478D]

It's faster than a speeding B, can leap over tall buildings, I'll take $49,900 for mine.

I am retracting this statement - selling the house and keeping the airplane

[GAHorn]

It's faster than a speeding B, can leap over tall buildings, I'll take $49,900 for mine.

I am retracting this statement - selling the house and keeping the airplane

Yes, that makes more sense, Joe. I'm fairly confident that even your airplane is probably faster than a house.

[N1478D]

It's faster than a speeding B, can leap over tall buildings, I'll take $49,900 for mine.

I am retracting this statement - selling the house and keeping the airplane

Yes, that makes more sense, Joe. I'm fairly confident that even your airplane is probably faster than a house.

Yea George, but, my house can probably out climb your old B model

[John Alexander]

remember: you can live in your airplane, but you can't fly your house!!

:D John N1640D

[N1478D]

remember: you can live in your airplane, but you can't fly your house!!

John N1640D

That's A Good One

CitiCorp is buying the company that I work for and my position has been defined as redundant

With unemployment in North Texas at 9% I have been wrestling with the what if I can't replace the job and had to sell something exercise. One week it is easy to see the logic in "sell the plane, keep the house". The next week it is "my passion is flying, sell the house, keep the airplane". I can't get off of the fence so I better line up a job

[Alterfede]

Well, ill try to be short, im from argentina, last october i bought a C170A, year 1950 (i think) serial 19659, it cost 18.000 dollars/pesos, because here was the convertibility law running so one dollar cost one peso.
It was 3500 total time, 0 engine SMOH and 0 glider hours since last overhaul, 4 place intercom and 4 headset, and a garmin 95XL gps. Have the original panel, with i think original instruments, and no radio. After flying a few hours got to put new gaskets in the accesory case and of course a used narco 120 radio. It has no corrosion since a confident mech is doing annual and nothing about that came. The only thing is that im changing one mag coil, one seat rail, and both fuel caps, because had auto ones. recent damage history in left main gear and left wingtip, luckily with a very good repair in both items. New interiors and 6/10 paint, is is aluminium with red and black trim. What do you think of this, i bought it because i thought it was a good deal.

FEDE
El Bolson-Argentina
C170A LV-FEH

[GAHorn]

That sounds like you've found a great deal, Alterfede! Congratulations!