The ....NEW...United Air Lines....

[GAHorn]

I'm simply amazed at the new mentality of corporations and gov't. (They seem to follow each other.)
Background: United is in bankruptcy, and is struggling to maintain a public facade of great, safe, public transportation.
From United Air Lines Operations Manager to it's Pilots, an email dated Feb 26.:
"As a reminder... Supplemental Bottled water is boarded for all pilots on Int'l flts (excluding Canada), Hawaian flts,....and all those domestic flts exceeding 2100 miles. For flts over 8 hrs each pilot will be provided 2 supplemental bottles of water. This ...is for consumption ON the airplane. (But any unfinished portion of the bottle may be taken with you at the completion of the flt.) (ed note: You know those pesky airline pilots. They will steal water until the airline executives are all blind and can no longer operate the D-ring on their golden parachutes!)
No other water or galley supplies may be removed from the aircraft for personal use. For domestic or Canadian flts less than 2100 miles in length, water is not boarded ...for flt crew. But pilots may still consume water, soft drinks, juices, etc. from the regular galley supplies...however there is not a sufficient amount of water to provide an entire bottle ...for each pilot. (ed note: in other words, if you get thirsty you'll have to take it from passengers.)
Signed by Mark Sebby, Mgr, Line Ops."

This memo was sent out to a group of pilots who have just sacrificed yet another $180 million per yr in pay (on top of $1.1 Billion in cuts previously) and are in all likelihood about to lose their retirements!

You'd think that in view of the paramount consideration of safety, that United would at the very least prefer their pilots/flt crew not be required to fly up to 8 hours without WATER!

What is the world coming to?

(Meanwhile, flight attendants are required to hawk drinks to pax as a profit item.)

I suggest anyone concerned with the current trend contact their congressmen and senators and lodge a concern about the current state of affairs at our nation's airlines.... and let United know you disapprove of their petty, unsafe behavior of intimidation toward the pilots who are responsible for our safety.

[N170BP]

The bean counters are in control.

For every bean counter United has to pay $70K+ per year,
that many less bottles of water can be consumed by
the crew.

Of course, if one were to fire all but a few bean counters.
at United, the crew could drink/"steal" gallons of water
on each flight, and the company would still make money
hand over fist.

I work in the aerospace industry and it's the same deal
(the bean counters have taken over, and equally silly
stuff like this gets sent down the pike on a daily basis).

What is the world coming to? A grinding halt... as long
as we continue down this path.

[blueldr]

In view of the recent revelations that the so called "Potable" water on board our nations airline fleet is usually contaminated beyond the national standard for safe drinking water, any airline pilot would compromise flight safety by consumption of the swill provided the paying passengers.
Can't you just picture the captain holed up in the crapper in the tail of the cabin, unable to leave the seat for even a moment, yelling instructions up the aisle to the first officer, who is probably in the same gut wrenching condition but, due to the absence of his fearless leader, is unable to desert his duty station.
All this because the cheap assed company bean counters wont spring for a couple of bottles of designer water!

[170C]

I have to agree that the bean counters are sure making life tough for all of us. However I also have to wonder, "How in the world did we ever survive without bottled water"? Folks used to carry a small thermos if they didn't want to drink "regular" water. Maybe its time we give some thought to getting away from this "in thing" of carrying around the water bottles.

[jmbrwn]

At home, I drink tap water...maybe I'm lucky to have good tap water...I don't know. But at work, the cockpit crew drinks bottled because of the aforementioned topic of the potable water not being suitable for drinking. This is well known, and posted in the lavs...not to drink the faucet water. Unfortunately, my airline also came out with a similiar memo as United...we've all ignored it. Rates of kidney stones have gone up since 9/11 because with the new secure doors, we have to have a F/A come up to the cockpit when a pilot needs to use the lav. Not wanting to disturb their duties, we tend to hold it as long as possible, plus not drink as much water.

The other week coming out of LGA, I asked for a bottle of water and the lead said she was not allowed that...I simply told her that was fine , we'd just turn around and land back at LGA....I got my bottle of water;-)

[N1478D]

It's not just the airlines! Bean counters, if allowed, will get to thinking that it's more important to count the beans than make them in manufacturing. It sure provides an opportunity for a small business fast on it's feet without the controlling bean counter type to out manuever a larger business with bean counters calling the shots. Looks like strong accurate management talent has left the country, or been forced in to submission by the legal system.

[zero.one.victor]

Hey, how about a reality check here? My employer(s) don't generally provide me with drinking water, period, let alone bottled water. As a union sheet metal worker (28 years worth) in the building construction industry, I'd be willing to bet that United's captains and probably the (senior) FO's too make waaaay more money per year than me. It doubt it would break their personal budget to supply a couple bottles of water out of their own pocket for consumption during working hours, just like me. I gotta buy my own lunch too. Waaah!
I'd agree that the airline management bigwigs are dragging down a whole buncha money, more than the employees -- pilots, mechanics, even beancounters-- who do the work that actually produces the revenue. Seems to me it's like that in every industry. Ain't fair, maybe, but that's how it is. As to beancounter's memo's-- same deal. I've never worked for an outfit that didn't urge it's workers to be more productive and efficient-- while management types frittered away money by the bucketload.
Raiding the pension plan to bail out the corporation is a whole 'nother show, though. This should be totally illegal, but apparently it isn't. That pension (and all pensions for that matter) should be vested & totally protected against raiding. Maybe the ALPA (or whoever) negotiators should have concentrated on this issue, instead of the almighty buck & cushy conditions (like drinking water).
No offense to the airline pilots among us,just my opinion and well worth what you paid for it.

Eric

[jmbrwn]

Hey, how about a reality check here? My employer(s) don't generally provide me with drinking water, period, let alone bottled water. As a union sheet metal worker (28 years worth) in the building construction industry, I'd be willing to bet that United's captains and probably the (senior) FO's too make waaaay more money per year than me. ......... I gotta buy my own lunch too. Waaah!

No offense to the airline pilots among us,just my opinion and well worth what you paid for it.

Eric

I do take offense to your statements, Eric. Your job, on the ground, not behind a locked secure door, allows you to easily go to a water fountain or restroom with ease. It's a different story on an airliner. And what does one's salary have to do with this topic?!? We're talking safety, not having to pay for beverages. It's too inconvenient to lug around 5 bottles of water for a 5 day trip. Oh, by the way, I buy my own lunches too. Crew meals are only provided when we don't have enough time during turns to buy our meals. I guess you'd rather your pilots fly around all day starving, suffering from low blood sugar, shooting low approaches in bad wx, because there was no time to get off the plane to buy a meal and get the flight out on time.....just because YOU had to buy your own lunch, by God those prima donna airline pilots ought to buy their's! GIVE ME A BREAK! And , no, your opinion is not even worth that.

[3958v]

Well guys I side with Eric on this one as another employed in the costruction industry. We buy our own water, lunch, health care retirement and work clothes. But this is America and if I don't like it I can move on to greener pastures. I suggest you do the same if your not happy. It seems to me complaining about who pays for water is really small potatos. By the way were we work there there often are no restrooms let alone water fountains. I am not complaining but feel you guys might appreciate what you have a little more. Sometimes we all need to relax, reflect and be thankful for what we have. I need to do it too sometimes. The only thing better than running heavy equipment in the middle of no where is flying over the middle of no where. Bill K

[mrpibb]

Just be thankful there professionals out there that take there job seriously and still try to give the flying public a safe product, It's not about water and wages, its about how the airlines feel that its everyones god giving right to travel across the country for the price of a steak dinner. Now they cant afford to give those seats away for the price of a steak dinner so instead just cut wages, amenities, vacation time, sick time stop funding the pension and so on. Working for the airline used to be a prestiges job and the pay reflected it, yes pilot made a lot of money, mechanics not as much but got paid well. But in this industry wages have been falling but the cost to build a house keeps going up, car prices don't get cheaper, cost of construction doesn't go down. Heck If i ask if my bank will cut my payments by 10 percent because I make that much less they will just laugh. How about I just care 10 percent less on that 767 or 777 that I'm working on, thats not bad odds 1 in 10 just don't fly more than nine times you will be okay. Now I,m not getting younger and those pilots that served our country in the military now flying the commercial airliners are not getting younger either, who will replace us? I could leave the airlines I guess and get a job at a car dealership fixing automobiles, you got no problem spending 75$ hr shop rate. It would be less stress I tell ya, but I'm stupid I guess because I enjoy what I do. My question is who will be tomorrow's pilots and mechanics? what will be the lure? I was in a bar the other day, the question came up asking what I do for a living, I replied I work as a mechanic for a major airline, his reply was " It S@!ks to be you!" Again why is it that the major airlines insist that they charge what It cost to fill your gas tank in your SUV to fly coast to coast.
And in closing I want to add that I had to fly for the company on several trips where I had to fly jumpseat on 10 and 14 hour trips, and yes your over nothing doing nothing strapped in to your seat, just pure FUN huh?
All this typing made me thirsty!!

[zero.one.victor]

Jim, I'm sorry you took offense to my post-- I guess I could have maybe worded it a little more diplomatically. But I stand by what said. The airline is not preventing you from drinking, eating, peeing, ##itting, or anything else you need to do to remain safe & healthy- are they? If so, I apologize. But I refuse to believe that you can "hold it" all the way from LA to Tokyo. Maybe I'm wrong. You reference a need for 5 days worth of water--am I to assume that you are locked down in the flight deck for all 5 days? I'm not an airline pilot, I don't really have any idea of the conditions you have to deal with.
Like I said, I feel that expecting people to provide their own water/snacks is not out of line, whether they're an airline pilot,a construction worker, or a janitor at Walmart-- it doesn't seem like that big a deal. However, I also think that expecting an employer to provide a livable wage, a health plan, and a (protected!) retirement plan for their skilled professional full-time employees is not unreasonable either.

Eric

[GAHorn]

I think the reality of the situation is being missed here.
Eric, if you are working a construction job....somewhere nearby...perhaps at the temporary site office, there's a cooler with a 5 gallon water jug on it where you can go to get a drink after you've laid down your tools and walked away from your sheet-metal work. (And your contractor probably pays for that for you. Even if not, the local garden hose doesn't charge you for a drink.)
The airline pilot has no such luxury. He can't "quit" ...even temporarily...his inflight duties...leave the immediate work site...to purchase additional water...... Why? Because the company has just sent this ridiculous email explaining that EVEN IF HE WANTED TO purchase his own damn water......the company management didn't see fit to place any on board for the flight crew!
But aside from that....the in flight crew cannot walk to the vending machine and buy a coke, or a bag of nuts, or chips, etc....because the NEW MANAGEMENT requires that only the minimum amount of supplies be purchased to be placed on board....and the flight attendants are required to try to sell all that stuff to the passengers! None is boarded for the crew!
At most of the jobs in the world, all that is necessary is a short break, and a trip to the break room vending machines, or the local convenience store. NOT for the pilot though. Not even plain ol' water!

Back in the mid-70's I was on the ALPA safety committee. We studied an accident-prone helicopter operation that flew all day long from pre-dawn fog to dusky-dark off-shore amongst a porcupine of off-shore drilling rigs, shuttling pax and materials back and forth.
Guess what time of day most accidents occured? Nope. Not foggy pre-dawn. Nope. Not bad visibility dusk. When??? Broad, open daylight, about 10 AM!
Why? ... Well, the accident investigators figured it out that the root cause of the accident pattern was because the company paid Per Diem instead of actual expenses on overnights! .... HUH???
Yep. True story.
The pilots were pocketing the per diem, and gorging themselves on the coffee and doughnuts at the departure lounge instead of buying wholesome breakfasts. By 10 AM they were all hypo-glycemic and drowsy....and getting careless.
When the company started paying actual expenses...the pilots started buying good breakfasts and the accident rate went to ZERO!
The point of the story is: For a few bottles of water employee morale, and flight safety is being hazarded. The company wants out of bankruptcy...yet the very employee most likely to be able to accomodate that dream is being abused (and your and my family members are riding right behind them) whle the company execs back on the ground in corporate headquarters still have their perks and their coffee break rooms just outside their comfortable office doors, and the restaraunts right down the street to spend their expense accounts on.
I suggest they have their priorities confused.

Bill K , the idea of having water in small convenient bottles is not the "luxury" you imagine. On the ground a water fountain or even a garden hose is just fine. But a bottle of water on an airliner is a matter of convenience for the EMPLOYER....a convenient method of dispensing the water, (not to mention the convenience of handling the water while in the cockpit amongst the controls, between ATC calls, checklists, re-programming the FMS (Flight Mgt System) etc, etc, ...AND the fact of the garden hose not quite long enough to reach the cockpit.
This is NOT a matter of pilots being too prima-donna to drink ordinary water like the rest of the world. It's a matter of the company not even making water AVAILABLE for it's employees at (or even near) their workstations! (After all, they are supposed to be locked down behind armoured doors! How much sense does it make for them to install $50K cockpit doors, and ...just because the company was too damn cheap and non-caring to place a couple bottles of water in the cockpit.... make those high-priced doors into swinging doors...just so the flight attendant or the pilot can get a bottle of water from passenger galley supplies....AND receive a reprimand for taking water from passengers!!
Give me a break! Is this what we've come to? We're all just like the old days of communism where iron-curtain neighbors turned in neighbors over jealousy? .....we all gotta criticize our fellow citizens for legitimately complaining about not getting a "perk" the rest of us can get? A f---kin' drink of WATER!?
How many contractors could avoid supplying a source of water at the work site and get away with it? Is there really such a jealousy of professional airline pilots that we actually think it's OK to criticize them for wanting water to be available? Jeeeze!
Tell me it's not true. Tell me we all are caring people who care about our fellow pilots and friends.

[jmbrwn]

George, I wish I was as well spoken as you....because you hit the nail right on the head. We're even being told now not to have ANY water bottles in the cockpit because they are a safety hazard...flying projectile don't ya know. Only styro cups of water...so after going to the trouble of ringing the F/A for a cup of water, gettting unbuckled, looking thru the peep hole, then opening the door to receive cup, sitting back down and re-buckling..finally gulping my water.....DAMN...I'm still thirsty!!! RING, RING, RING...more water please! Is it just me, or is this lunacy?

I don't apologize for the money I make either...it's really not that much. I have several doctor friends, friends who own their own businesses, etc , who make a lot more than I do...I'm happy for them. I'm just thankful that I get paid to do what I love. I don't expect to be paid as much as my doctor friend the surgeon, because I didn't go to school as long as he did or receive the training he did...but last I checked, it's still a free country, and I could have if I chose too....same as you. If some think I was "whining" about not having water bottles provided...well, so be it....just keep that thought in mind next time your riding on my flight

[Jr.CubBuilder]

I think you folks deserve a bottled water or two in the cockpit. It seems to me that penny pinching micro management has always been around, but the real problem here is that these big companies can so conveniently "reorganize"/go bankrupt. Why is it that these big companies can go belly up financially while the CEOs recline in their mansions looking forward to a vacation while investing the fruits of their golden parachute?

[3958v]

Well I do feel for you if they dont want you to carry your own water bottle or thermos. I mentioned your complaints about who supplied your water to two fellows I was working with today. I did not get much sympathy for you as we all drank the drinks we brought to work in the morning with us. That said it really does not seem like a big deal to give the pilots something to drink while serving the rest of the passengers. Any way it does not really matter as I much prefer to fly with me as PIC drinking my own water and carrying what ever I want in my pockets. That is why I fly a 170. Any way I dont like to go that high or that fast. Bill K