Hey, Joe...

hilltop170 · Post by **hilltop170** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 4:10 am

Hey Joe-
Tell that guy you know anytime he wants to have some company to go flying with him, give me a call.

N1478D · Post by **N1478D** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 4:27 am

hilltop170 wrote:Hey Joe-
Tell that guy you know anytime he wants to have some company to go flying with him, give me a call.

I'll do that tonight Richard - THANKS! Although, at the moment I am still laughing pretty hard at your response to the geometry fuel cap issues in the Hangar. Bet Frank would pass me in Ol Pokey if he would just align his caps up right!

How did that ATP written go? Bet you didn't miss a single question! Our mutual friend down in Fredericksburg, the guy who I thought was the best tailwheel pilot on the planet, told me yesterday that you are the best tailwheel pilot he has ever seen, anywhere, period!

hilltop170 · Post by **hilltop170** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 5:03 am

Holy cow Joe, that was a surprise, Ina just had to clean up the mess after my head exploded it swelled up so fast! That was a VERY generous statement Bob made. I just try to pay attention and not tear up anything, good instructors help a lot too.

Did you fly down to F'burg?

No I didn't make a 100% on the ATP written. If I had stayed more than an hour and reworked some of the ones I had trouble with I might have done it. What difference does one pound per square foot floor loading make anyway, do they weigh the dirt and everything in cargo airplanes? I hate tests and studying and one hour was long enough to be under that kind of anxiety. After agonizing over whether or not to take that test at all for the last 20 years and seriously studying for it several other times, I fully believe it was the last written exam I will ever take in my life. I got a 93% and was damn proud of it! Now the check ride, that will be fun!

N1478D · Post by **N1478D** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 5:59 am

Bob was very sincere in his compliments. He made many of them. When I was reading the Bob Hoover book I kept wondering throughout the book how Bob would campare to Bob Hoover's talents. Bob is a living legend here in the Grand Prairie area, and other areas too.

No, didn't fly down there but Bob and I discussed the advanced training I have been wanting to get from him for a long time. I hope to do that in the near future. I would have called you today, but Bob told me you were going to take the test. Jerry and I flew over to the Wild Onion for lunch, boy it was good, and then stopped at Hicks to shop at Avery's Tool. Sure would have enjoyed you joining us. There was a front moving thru and I landed downwind each time, the wind kept shifting from the South to the North. Landed to the South at Keezer, and the wind had changed to the North. Took off to the North and landed to the North at Hicks, in that short distance it had switched again to the South. Didn't bend any metal, but didn't make any landing I want to remember either.

Have you landed at Bob's ranch Richard? That sure sounds like an interesting short strip with a turn in it, with obstructions. He said that he has taken a 170 ragwing in and out of it. The pucker power was there on the getting back out part, he said.

That's GREAT news on the written test! Sounds like those are a lot of fun for you!

hilltop170 · Post by **hilltop170** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 7:23 am

You'll enjoy training with Bob, I've flown with him on quite a few occasions and always seem to learn something from him.

I would have enjoyed flying with you today, maybe next time. I noticed the wind was wishy-washy all afternoon. That front couldn't decide whether to come on thru or not. At least now that it has, it's cooled down to about normal temperature for this time of year.

I never have landed at Bob's ranch. There is no way I would take the 195 in there. I need a solid 1000' ground roll for both takeoff and landing. There is not enough room to turn final and touch down or lift off and turn in time to have any margin of error. His strip is 1800' long but is set exactly perpendicular (there we go again with that Geometry stuff) to the valley it sits in. It's a one-way strip with one end into a caliche bluff with a 300' tall hill behind that and the other end has trees and the other valley wall is about 400' out. No way to outclimb or descend over the hills. You basically have to turn base to final at 50'agl and roll wings level at the end of the strip. Take-off is the opposite direction and you have to be off the ground and turning crosswind before the end of the runway. Plus to make it interesting, it usually has a variable crosswind but never down the runway. I always land at Real County Airport about four miles away after letting Bob know I'm there by flying over the ranch. Somehow I always seem to be able to get his attention even when he's on the tractor. He's there to pick us up before we get tied down. Of course I have to buy him lunch every now and then for the taxi ride. Fortunately Leakey has some good restaurants. I probably will take the 170 in light when I get it down here, it will do much better than the 195. Landing will be ok and takeoff is at least downhill. I can always wait for a favorable wind.

Keep me in mind for those future airport-hopping days, especially when -15D is back in Texas, I sure would like to fly along.

Post by **GAHorn** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 7:35 am

That Leakey airport is a fun stip itself. I've been in/out of there driving an old two-stroke Hawker several times. I love that view climbing out to the NW.

N1478D · Post by **N1478D** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 7:47 am

Was wondering about the 195 in that kind of situation. That's very interesting. I can't wait to get down there and have Bob demonstrate either in his 180, or my plane how to handle that. He was describing how on takeoff he keeps his elevator neutral for less drag, and flaps neutral for less drag untill rotation time and then he applies the needed amount of flaps. Can just imagine how variable crosswinds could play in to that, GEE.

Post by **GAHorn** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 7:53 am

I like the nuetral elevator technique. If you look back at the elevator from the cockpit you can see that the yoke about even with the doorpost will make the elevator nuetral. When the speed is sufficient to cause the nuetral elevator to lift the tail....the rudder is also sufficiently effective.
Also the tail is slightly low and in few moments the airplane simply flys off the ground. It's a great way to teach a new taildragger pilot, as long as there's no crosswinds.
In X-winds I keep the tail on the ground considerably longer.

hilltop170 · Post by **hilltop170** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 9:14 am

George- That must have been a heart-pounder flying in and out of Leakey in a Hawker, that strip is less than 4000' long and none too wide if I remember right, with trees on the north end and powerlines and trees on the south. I bet you did love it when it was certain you had it made! Flying up that valley is beautiful.

N1478D · Post by **N1478D** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 9:38 am

Ha Ha!

Thinking of George flying a Hawker into Leakey, ("... what the heck, let's take the Hawker, what's a few hundred gallons of gas ...") and then down the valley for some sight seeing some how reminded of the C______ Greaser story. I searched and could not find it. Must have been on the old site. George, that is such a good and funny story, do you have a link to it? Or, could you repost it? There are several new members that would enjoy it very much. I still laugh years later anytime I think about it, or someone says greaser.

Only being a two wheeled Hawker, bet it was even more important to dump the flaps and get the weight on the wheels as soon as possible.

Post by **GAHorn** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 4:34 pm

It was a DH-125-400 RR-Viper powered Hawker and had dual wheels on each gear. The technique on that airplane was to ADD flaps after landing!
(All the Hawker 125's have a system known as "lift-dump" which, after landing with full flaps, when the pilot deploys air-brakes over-a-baulk, immediately runs the flaps beyond the 45/50-degree landing position to the 70/75-degree lift-dump position and simultaneously runs the air-brakes to more extended 45 upper/75 lower positions. From the passenger-view, it looks like the wings come apart. A typical short-field landing could arrive at normal weights (say 20K lbs) and the airplane would be slowed to 35 kts within 3500 ft ...without using any brakes at all! Coupled with an excellent "maxaret" type anti-skid, the airplane can be stopped in remarkably short distances for a swept-wing jet, even on wet runways. (It was designed for turf and was one of the very first jets to be. I've demonstrated landings as short as 1900' on dry pavement.)
Fun airplane, but the turbojet version only got 1 mpg.

(3K lbs first hour, 2K lbs 2nd hour FF's) The current production fans are a bit easier on the fuel, but don't make as much noise and smoke, so I don't like 'em as much.

(And the new ones have got digital clocks in 'em.)

hilltop170 · Post by **hilltop170** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 5:56 pm

George-
The company I worked for had a HS-125 back in the 1980s when I worked in Alaska. I have fond memories of flying in the back of that plane (with the self-service bar) on numerous occasions between Anchorage, Prudhoe Bay, Kuparuk, and Juneau (the capitol of Alaska). When the wind was right, it would make it non-stop from Anchorage to Dallas.

On one memorable night flight going north to Prudhoe, the Aurora (northern lights) Project launched a sounding rocket from Minto Flats in front of us with an explosive warhead loaded with Barium or something to try and stimulate the northern lights at about 50 miles agl. Very impressive!

Both Prudhoe Bay and Kuparuk (the second largest oilfield in North America that no one has heard of) had 6000' long gravel airstrips that were impeccably maintained for the B-727s, B-737s, DC-6s, C-130s, HS-125, Twin Otters, and other assorted biz jets and bush planes. In winter, the runway centerline stripes were purple (grape jello diluted way-down) which had great contrast with the snow so the pilots could see them in a white-out and it wouldn't pollute the environment at break-up. More than one arctic fox met his demise while licking the center stripe. ARCO pilots were good! They still are, just working for BP now.

Post by **GAHorn** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 6:21 pm

Yep. One of the ARCO guys, Bob Comolli, just retired from the Hawker program here at Simuflite.
I recall seeing the ARCO Hawkers undergoing inspection back in the early 80's at Atlantic Aviaton in Houston. It was pretty impressive to see the "gravel" damage absorbed by the gravel-guards on the undersides of those wings/flaps. It's a great airplane.

Post by **GAHorn** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 6:38 pm

N1478D wrote:Ha Ha! ... reminded of the C______ Greaser story. I searched and could not find it. Must have been on the old site. George, that is such a good and funny story, do you have a link to it? Or, could you repost it? There are several new members that would enjoy it very much. I still laugh years later anytime I think about it, or someone says greaser. ...

That was when I was flying with the State of Texas. It was stressed and re-stressed under threat-of-firing as a state employee to be PC (politically correct) at ALL TIMES!
One day, flying a King Air 200, I had a new co-pilot (co-Captain, actually...a Hispanic guy named Joe Rodriguez) who was also a new employee at the state flight dept. A plane-load of state employees were onboard (all of whom also lived under threat of PC violations.)
Anyway, we were arriving back at the state capitol on the last leg of the day, and it was Joe Rodriguez's turn to shoot the approach and land. It had been raining hard during the approach and as we broke out at the threshold a ray-of-sunlight washed over the runway and our plane during a landing-so-smooth you couldn't tell when the wheels actually glided onto the wet pavement.

Without thinking I keyed the Cabin Intercom and announced, "And THAT, ladies and gentlemen, is why we call him "Captain GREASER!"

I was horrified at what had just come out of my mouth!

... but to my great relief the person laughing loudest was Joe Rodriguez!

hilltop170 · Post by **hilltop170** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 9:00 pm

George- I met Bob Comolli a couple of times but did not know him as well as some of the others. All excellent pilots and some good guys also.

ARCO sold the Hawker, N125AR to the Bank of Alaska and it stayed in Anchorage for awhile but I haven't seen it in several years.

From listening to the pilots, the 125 was a great airplane. They all liked flying it because not only did it have it's regular schedule but they got to make all the neat unscheduled side trips all over N. America.

Joe-
I had lunch with Bob Snowden today, he said to say hi.