Photo Gallery?

[1SeventyZ]

First off George, I am not here to self promote. I'm not the one who mentioned that "other website." These are only my opinions, not demands. I can pick another website that I'm not associated with to use as an example if you like.

I stand by my above comments, but I will say that I am not critical of what has been accomplished here. It's a great thing, all these 170 enthusiasts coming together and sharing their experience and expertise on topics that need to be covered. It's a good group of people. So, if by giving that one reason why I don't pay for membership in the Association, you're offended, well so be it. You still have yet to sell me on its value. Although, truthfully, I had not considered that one of your objectives here is to promote the Cessna 170, I have seen it simply as a support network for enthusiasts.

To me, and many others I imagine, TIC170A will only ever exist as the web forum. It's a vast body of knowledge organized by discussion topics, and you have done a good job as moderator to help organize it.

As far as contributions and my shameless harvesting of your knowledge, I apologize for not being the 170 expert that you and some of the others are. Hopefully soon with some more experience I can contribute more in that regard. However, I do know something about information management, and last summer I introduced the idea of a Wiki as a better way to organize the information here into a proper knowledge base. It was a concept that many seemed unaware of and receptive to.

This forum is way behind some of the others in the technology dept, so the case I'm making is that: This body of information is so important, yes I am critical as to why the Association charges dues but does not put more of its resources into what I consider its most valuable asset. I can post photos here easily, but I want everyone to be able to.

I suppose what I would be buying with my $45 is the right to criticize, but if you can suspend your personal sensitivities, you'll see what I'm offering is solutions.

[Haydon]

Tripslip38,

Me and the association members are coming over to your house for dinner and we are "picky eaters." We hope you are not sensitive about our comments on your cooking.....We are just trying to help you....We could make this a real regular arrangement...you buy the groceries,cook,clean up the dishes and we give you great advice.....and one day you will be a good cook......What time is dinner?

Richard.....

[1SeventyZ]

Tripslip38,

Me and the association members are coming over to your house for dinner and we are "picky eaters." We hope you are not sensitive about our comments on your cooking.....We are just trying to help you....We could make this a real regular arrangement...you buy the groceries,cook,clean up the dishes and we give you great advice.....and one day you will be a good cook......What time is dinner?

Well if there's one thing I can't criticize about the association, it's the solidarity among paying members.

[GAHorn]

Zane, I wouldn't want anyone to join just for the purpose of anyone feeling better about their criticisms.
Anyone who can read can see the majority of us would like to develop a better method of creating photographic capabilities and records. We intend to do that. We plan to make improvements much greater than that.

Perhaps it just struck us as odd, the manner in which you seemed to barge into our living room and help yourself to hospitality and then complain about it. Most people would be a bit more attune to the sensitivities of their host/hostess. You, however, appear to totally miss that nuance and have invited yourself to criticize your host's personal finances as well!

Bad form, Zane. Not bad website advice. But very bad form.

[JTS]

Tripslip38,

It has been mentioned here before that the majority of the association members do not, for one reason or another, frequent this site. But these same members can have a bearing on how this site is run by using their voting priveliges. The manner in which these participating members vote on forum issues will be partly dictated by the information that they receive from forum (multimedia) savvy members. Therfore I believe sir that your $45 would buy more than your right to criticize. Membership priviliges aside, it would buy you "stock" in the continuous development of this site and the manner in which information is generated and shared. This website is a wonderful tool for discussing matters pertaining to, and for promoting the Cessna 170/A/B, and the association needs all of the caring, resourceful, participative, and skilled people on board that it can find.

Finally, it should be noted that this site is a work in progress, and i'd like to give my thanks to everyone involved in it's upkeep and advancement, and may we always be open to constructive criticizm.

Jody

[pif_sonic]

First of all I want to let everyone know how much I appreciate the information on this website. I also appreciate the information on the backcountry site. I read as much information on 170’s on this site as I could before I purchased my 170. I spoke with several people from this site who generously gave me information. I have also seen a few people that get very upset when someone gives an opinion on this site that differs with theirs. I also understand that when you build something and someone offers helpful hints, you may take it as criticism. Let’s remember it’s only a website and it’s only an opinion. I do not think it is anything personal.

With all that said, Zane you can come to my house for dinner any time.

[GAHorn]

First of all I want to let everyone know how much I appreciate the information on this website. I also appreciate the information on the backcountry site. I read as much information on 170’s on this site as I could before I purchased my 170. I spoke with several people from this site who generously gave me information. I have also seen a few people that get very upset when someone gives an opinion on this site that differs with theirs. I also understand that when you build something and someone offers helpful hints, you may take it as criticism. Let’s remember it’s only a website and it’s only an opinion. I do not think it is anything personal.

With all that said, Zane you can come to my house for dinner any time.

pif_sonic... How come you don't join?

[1SeventyZ]

It has been mentioned here before that the majority of the association members do not, for one reason or another, frequent this site.

I think you just blew my mind. Seriously. As a child of the information age, I never considered this possibility, so to those offended by my assumption that the website should be the cornerstone of the membership, I apologize.

But, if the website is run by volunteers, and this excellent knowledge base is something compiled over the years by forum users, Association members or not, I fail to grasp the connection between the Association and the accomplishments of the greater 170 online community. I'm sorry I criticized your organization, that was rude of me. But I am still annoyed that there is such heavy pressure to join the Association, and the notion that by joining the Association, you've somehow earned your right to participate in the online community. I think that's fine if you seek something beyond internet participation, which I do not. IMHO.

[doug8082a]

It has been mentioned here before that the majority of the association members do not, for one reason or another, frequent this site.

I think you just blew my mind. Seriously. As a child of the information age, I never considered this possibility, so to those offended by my assumption that the website should be the cornerstone of the membership, I apologize. .

I wrestle with this particular topic as well. I need to be continually reminded that a large percentage of the 170 Ass'n membership are of a generation that does not frequent, or feel they need to frequent, the internet and all it has to offer as many of our generation do. It's unfortunate as both sides miss out... we online miss out on the experience and knowledge of the more senior 170 owners and they miss out on the knowledge here and the camaraderie. I think this is improving, but it's a slow process.

[GAHorn]

[... But I am still annoyed that there is such heavy pressure to join the Association, and the notion that by joining the Association, you've somehow earned your right to participate in the online community.....

What heavy pressure? You (and hundreds of others) have been participating. They've gathered info as they wished. They've introduced themeselves, and hopefully found friendships here.
The Forums are our way of introducing ourselves and meeting others of like mind regarding Cessna 170's and other cool aircraft. Many of our members don't even own 170's and some of them don't own an airplane at all. And lots of folks just come and visit.

But I don't go out with the guys always find a need to go outside and answer the cell phone whenever the meal tab is delivered to the table. I try to carry my own weight whenever the expenses come due.

I too apologize if I've seemed contrary in this thread. All I want is for people to come here and meet, make friends, and get to know our association and it's members. They don't need to "sell" themselves. They are an incredibly courteous and interesting and helpful group.
The BEST way to meet them is at our meetings and conventions.
Next convention: Galveston, June 24-30. Great family fun, and lots of airplane stuff too!

[pif_sonic]

Do you have to be a member to attend the convention??

[1SeventyZ]

But I don't go out with the guys always find a need to go outside and answer the cell phone whenever the meal tab is delivered to the table. I try to carry my own weight whenever the expenses come due.

You're still not getting the point. What expenses for an internet-only experience? Hosting? Less than $200/yr for top notch service. Integration costs? Volunteered. And since we've established that Association dues don't support the web forums, why are you still hung up on non-members who don't want to join?

I could quote many posts where you pressure people to join TIC170A. And it is pressure, even if suggested, as you're the big man on campus so to speak.

It's not lost on me that you edited your post just to get one more insult in. There's a difference between criticism and insult, and you don't seem to get that, since you go for a character attack on me with each post.

[GAHorn]

Do you have to be a member to attend the convention??

Of course not! We'd be very happy to have you join us! Shall I send you a registration form?

[GAHorn]

...You're still not getting the point. What expenses for an internet-only experience? Hosting? Less than $200/yr for top notch service. Integration costs? Volunteered. And since we've established that Association dues don't support the web forums, why are you still hung up on non-members who don't want to join?

I could quote many posts where you pressure people to join TIC170A. And it is pressure, even if suggested, as you're the big man on campus so to speak.

Have you tried visiting the CPA forums and telling them what you think about their policy that you must already be a member to participate?
Or have you tried EAA? How 'bout the ABA? And AOPA?
We happen to be one of the few type clubs and aviation websites of any import that does not require membership prior to obtaining access to our knowledge-base and discussions.
Pressure? If you feel "pressure" then you must also feel you are getting something you owe someone for.

Hung up on non-members who don't want to join? You are daft, man! We love visitors here. We encourage all of them to register and participate in discussions about Cessna 170s and flying. What we don't like is someone who abuses the privilege... acting as if they are offended by the results of their own visitation here. It was your choice to visit here. It is not your privilege to attack your hosts without getting some of your own fairly sent back at you. Your actions have consequences. Everyone else in the world understands and lives with that reality.

...It's not lost on me that you edited your post just to get one more insult in. There's a difference between criticism and insult, and you don't seem to get that, since you go for a character attack on me with each post.

(Yes, I edited a previous post. I did so because I felt I may have overreacted and berated you. I didn't think that was fair so I changed my msg and used a cartoon to add some levity to the situation. And to demonstrate my sincerety I've now completely deleted it.)

It's up to you to reveal your character, Zane. If you feel insulted it's probably just confusion. You shouldn't feel insulted. You should feel embarrassed. It's you who do not seem to get the point. IMHO

If you'll refrain from attacking your hosts, you'll not likely find yourself at odds with them.

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

You're still not getting the point. What expenses for an internet-only experience? Hosting? Less than $200/yr for top notch service. Integration costs? Volunteered. And since we've established that Association dues don't support the web forums, why are you still hung up on non-members who don't want to join?

Hold on there Zane. Where did we establish that dues don't pay for the forum. They certainly do. That's where the "$200/yr for top notch service" comes from.

I could quote many posts where you pressure people to join TIC170A. And it is pressure, even if suggested, as you're the big man on campus so to speak.

Zane, George is much better than most of us at asking people to join. I'm not commenting on the manner that he does it, just that he does.

I don't recall asking anyone to join. I should, I wish you and all the other non-members would join the association. I've gotten much more than my $45 out of the association in more ways than I could count.

Perhaps some day you will find yourself in that same situation and you will see fit to join and help support the cause. Perhaps not.

I'm not hung up on non-members and I don't think George is either. Both he and I as well as others have been very quick with vocal objection to any restrictions more than there are now. As you might know there are somethings a non-member can't do at the forum.

We understand that we have gained plenty from non TIC170A members and we of course hope to turn non-members into TIC170A members.

So while I might not ask directly, all forum participants who aren't TIC170A members rest assured. When you look at my smiling face on my avatar with all my posts, I'm trying to send a subliminal message to you to join the association.

For those that view my smiling mug who are TIC170A members, the subliminal message is thanks for being a TIC170A member.