3 point crosswind landings

[clayton991]

Hi all....

I've flown tailwheel aircraft off and on over the last 28 years. I've always used the wheel landing technique for crosswind landings....until I met a mature lady (75+) in Tucson named Mary who took me out flying in her 170A and taught me a few lessons.
She told me that she thought wheel landings in the 170 were "not necessary". We went out at Ryan Field in about a 14 knot crosswind, and she demonstrated her 3 point crosswind landings from the right seat pretty flawlessly. I was impressed.
Not much to it really. Wing down into the wind, appropriate rudder to keep tracking straight, and get ready to get those feet alive when all 3 wheels make contact...to keep it tracking straight.
Her point in teaching that technique is that she feels that the speed required to do a wheel landing, plus the transition to 3 point, puts the pilot in too vulnerable a position.
What say you??

[mrpibb]

The only time I wheel land is when I practice my wheel landings and when I land at airports with long runways like Newark liberty Intl.



P.S. they asked me if I could stop before the intersection

[CBogle]

I've seen other threads on this topic and if I recall correctly, the 3-point versus wheel landing debate seems to have people pretty evenly divided. I'm with you, other than wheel landings every once in awhile just for the challenge of doing them, I always do three-points, expecially in a challenging cross wind. I do them just as you said, wing into the wind down as required, some cross control to track straight as required, and careful but dilligent rudder and brake as required to keep the plane tracking straight.

The gear on my "48 is so springy that wheel landings on pavement must be done with a very shallow descent or the plane will "bounce." Once the bouncing starts, it can get worse very quickly.

Regards,

Curt

[voorheesh]

What a great picture. How about those smoke stack windsocks? I am no expert but I do not mind landing 3 point in an xwind. I frequently land at Chico, CA Ranchero which is about 2100' with almond orchards at each end and I just like doing 3 points there even in x wind. I have never had a problem. The advantage of a wheel landing in an xwind is higher speed, better directional control (rudder effectiveness), but when you put the tail down you become vulnerable while you are still moving fast enough to lose it. When I wheel land, I prefer a tail low attitude where the transition to tail down/yoke full aft is quick. I have found that a 55 to 60mph touchdown with no power works best. I was at Shafter, CA all day today and watched numerous taildraggers make great xwind and even 1/4 tailwind landings in a 3 point attitude. Clearly it can be done safely either 3 pt or wheel.
The most important thing to me in an xwind landing situation is to recognize (early) if the wind exceeds either the a/c or my capability and then to do a go around to plan b. It is always good to have a plan b.

[iowa]

i remember landing at the 9k ft RW in lincoln, ne once
and made the mistake of landing just on the very end
the tower got on the mic and told me
to taxi 8,000 feet to the far intersection and then on
to duncan av!!
dave

[GAHorn]

...P.S. they asked me if I could stop before the intersection

I'm sure they meant before the intersection with taxiway BB. (This would be the first taxiway after the threshold of RWY 11 in your pic.)

[mrpibb]

Actually that day I stopped before the touch down zone, subsequent trips I wheel landed and turned off @ Sierra, the hangar I work at is at the end of sierra at the north end. When I was on the runway 11 approach they also had a 757 landing on 22R, but I guess after being on the approach for 5 Min's and moved on blip with on radar they realized that the 757 would be at the gate before I touch down

[tshort]

Nice pics!
I only have 100hr or so in the 170, but I was taught (and much prefer) 3 pointers in all situations. The way my CFI explained it just makes sense ... if you touch down 3 point, full stall, then the plane is done flying, the tailwheel is down, and you have good control. I have found wheelies to be tricky - you really have to touch down softly (tricky in a gusty wind) or you bounce. My bounces have been no trouble so far - most were so high that I just gave up and went around for a 3 pointer!

Thomas

[Harold Holiman]

Just as a matter of personal preference, in both my 170 and my 180 I would usually wheel land on pavement and three point on grass. Every now and then I would three point on pavement and wheel on grass just to stay proficient.

Harold

[mit]

I do what ever it takes to get it on the ground in one piece and don't even think about it

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Tim

You hit it right on the nose. Do what it takes and that is usually what your most comfortable and good at. Nothing more, nothing less.

I've said this before. I'm much better at 3 points and have done them with winds gusting more than 35 knots 90 degrees to the runway when I had no choice commuting to work to Linden just south of Vic's pictures.

I do like to wheel land just because it's pretty and when I pull off a wheel landing as short as I can 3 point it life doesn't get much better in a 170 world.

[cessna170bdriver]

Here's an external link to the airport diagram for Newark Liberty International Airport for those with eyes more than 40 years old.

http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0704/00285AD.PDF

Miles

[sphillips]

Though most of my TW time has been in an Aviat Husky, I prefer three point landings. Husky has a lot of rudder authority and have landed in some pretty strong gusty crosswinds after a tow. Ferried a Husky to Sun N Fun a week ago last Thursday and got caught up in that storm that left all the snow in Kansas. Had to land in Wray, Co and had to use a little right brake to keep her straight after touchdown. Finally got to Lakeland on Sunday afternoon, wind 26kts.

[170C]

I still prefer 3 pt landings, but do find it fun to do a wheelie when conditions are right. I consider the wheel landings to be more of a challenge, probably because 99% of mine are 3 pointers. I find it easier to wheel land with 40 degrees of flap than none. Mr Pibb--nice photo's! Some good looking heavy Boeing iron, but your 170 is still the best. I like that hangar. Now if I had that I could just almost fly in a no wind situation

[mrpibb]

Story behind the photo's, every year Newark liberty has their airport day.
They allow a handful of GA aircraft to fly in all fees waived and a fill up to boot. I usually work that day so I arrive earlier to punch in to work, that's the photo in the hangar, I pulled right in, talk about confused looks!!
Oh I was on time too