170 Maneuvers

[N2868C]

A number of years ago I was based at a small airport in Lebanon IL and hangared next to a guy with a C-180. He and his friend, a Luscombe driver invited me to join them for a breakfast run to a local hangout, just a 20 minute flight away. I agreed, fired up my little Alon and was off in hot pursuit. To my total disbelief, I observed the 180 lift off and almost immediately follow that with a rather brisk roll!! Not to be outdone, the Luscombe followed in a like manner. I followed, in a straight and level form and we traveled, in train, to the local strip that served a reasonable breakfast. My uniformed observation would lead me to believe that these were snap rolls. When a query was initiated regarding the aerobatic maneuvers, I was promptly informed that it was SOP for these guys. Not wanting to appear as totally ignorant, I asked no more questions that day. That was nearly 25 years ago.

Now, for my question to the group: Could they have been snap rolls, in spam cans?? Can my trusty old 170 manage such a maneuver, in the proper hands? No way would I try such a thing at such a low altitude, but at altitude, that might be fun. I have done some aerobatics in a Swick converted “T” Craft, and I’ve done a few loops in my Cub, but our 170 has only been flown, keeping the dirty side down.

So, how good are these trusty old birds that we fly??

Tom

1954 170B

[mit]

Can of worms

[AR Dave]

We've had this discussion before but I can't find it -

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Tom

While it is tuff to say whether what you saw these guys do was a snap roll what is clear is you saw them perform a STUPID maneuver in these aircraft at ANY altitude.

A roll or snap roll is not authorized by either of these aircrafts TCDS because the aircraft is NOT BUILT TO WITHSTAND THE LOADS. They will come apart. Our 170s call into the same category.

Keep your 170 upright. If you feel the need, do your loops, rolls and spins in your Cub which is not restricted from these maneuvers. I would not intentionally perform snap maneuvers in your Cub as the stress from these maneuvers is much higher. Yes Cubs have been flown in aerobatic competition to include snaps but these are not stock Cubs.

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Hey Dave I was curious if you get even fuel burn from each tank in that flight attitude?

[N2868C]

I have looped our Cub, and I have done a few spins in it. It seems to handle all of that just fine.

As far as our 170 goes, it gives us all of the pleasure that we need from it with cruise and travel. And, we plan to keep it that way.

Tom

[doug8082a]

[cessna170bdriver]

Hey Dave I was curious if you get even fuel burn from each tank in that flight attitude?

I was curious about how high he had to be at what time of day to get the sun at that angle.

Miles

[N171TD]

It's obvious he was at the other side of the world.

[N2782C]

Apparently these two boys have never retained the brains God gave them at birth....outstanding airshow pilots have killed themselves doing this very thing in aircraft designed specifically for the maneuver. Where, oh where, do these guys come from?

Remember, you can do anything once!

[doug8082a]

Setting aside the very real potential to kill yourself doing something the airplane is not designed to do, this is one of those things that eventually backfires against GA in general. One day one of these guys (or someone else doing similar things) will screw themselves into the ground and the media will once gain have fuel for sensational headlines. Pilots in general will be portrayed as reckless, "those little planes" will be protrayed as dangerous, and communities close to airports will band together to try and "protect themselves" (i.e. close the airport) from those dangerous little planes.

Why do people insist on doing such boneheaded maneuvers?! If a person wants to fly acro, then go get some instruction from a CFI in an appropriate aircraft and if you end up really likeing it, then go buy a Decathalon or a Pitts or whatever. My experience has shown that the guys who perform reckless stunts in inappropriates aircraft are usually ones with little or no real training and/or experience with aerobatics... and usually end up killing themselves in the process. Kinda like this guy...

From AvWeb:
May 6, 2007

Aerobatics Might Have Preceded Baron Crash
By Russ Niles, Contributing Editor


The actual circumstances may never be known, but the NTSB is inviting speculation that the pilot of Beech 58 Baron might have been performing aerobatics, perhaps even trying to roll the aircraft, before it was seen shedding parts and crashing near Hamilton, Ga., on April 22. The pilot and all four passengers died. The only witness was a boater who, according to the preliminary report, heard an aircraft approaching and told investigators it “sounded as if the pilot was performing some acrobatic maneuvers.” Shortly after he said he heard the engine noise increase in intensity and he watched as either a wing or part of the tail came off as the airplane dove at a steep angle. But it’s what acquaintances of the pilot told investigators that have led to the possible theory that intentional aerobatics preceded the in-flight breakup. According to the report, the pilot’s friends seemed universally concerned that he was planning to fly the airplane in ways not covered by the POH. “The friend informed the pilot that he thought he was stupid and not to do anything in the airplane that would get him hurt." According to the NTSB report, the pilot stated, "I think I can roll this airplane." The friend told investigators the pilot was impressed by an air demonstration pilot at the Sun 'n Fun Fly-In the previous week who performed aerobatics in a Beech 18. Another friend, who flew in the right seat of the Baron on the trip back from Sun 'n Fun, reported the pilot said, "I believe it is possible to roll this aircraft," and then appeared to try and roll the Baron. The aircraft was at knife edge before the friend grabbed the controls and leveled the aircraft. The flight continued to Griffin, Ga., and there was no further mention of rolling the airplane, but the friend did report that the pilot shut down one engine for part of the trip.

[Bill Hart]

I came accross this today on you tube and thought about this thread.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMeBefckyTE

[doug8082a]

That looked an awful lot like a 170 from the inside.

Two things are universal... hydrogen and stupidity.

[doug8082a]

After watching it a couple more times it sure looks like he rolled it as well. Decorum prevents me from repeating the words that still hang in the air over my keyboard...

[GAHorn]

These bozos were foolish enough to video themselves ... (it's pretty funny but I feel for the poor, sweet, pup.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SN77b9DqEbc