Poker Run

[AR Dave]

Exactly how does a Poker Run Work? Tips, ideals, or advice, from experienced Poker Runners, would be helpful. How abouts some experiences from past Convention Poker Runs. What works well & what doesn't, how many workers are needed, how many airports & distance between? Thanks!

[GAHorn]

Don't be surprised if I don't agree with those who like poker runs. There is no skill involved. It's a mad rush to get there and get a random playing card to provide a chance for folks to run into each other while burning up fuel. There's not even a chance or reason to develop a good poker-face or work a bet.

While it didn't go as perfectly as I'd hoped, I got good feed-back from the Galveston fly-out, which was intended to provide some scenic flying, a good meal, and a navigation problem to get to a bomb-drop site, and a spot landing at the final destination, and a fuel-burn-estimation problem. (filling up at destination requires accurate fuel burn estimate as well as accurate beginning fuel load estimate..... good piloting skills we all need to stay current about.) Spacing aircraft 3-5 minutes apart gives about 6-10 miles of separation between aircraft.

[AR Dave]

I got good feed-back from the Galveston fly-out, which was intended to provide some scenic flying, a good meal,

That's good feedback and something to think about!

So the Poker Run is a race to pick up cards and get to the finish line first?

Well I've got to race out the front of this camp, get on a bus which takes me to KUP (remember that hilltop170), and get the heck out of this freezer! TEMP -39 F, WIND 10 WNW, CHILL -64 F, CLEAR

Here's some pictures that we took around camp! No political feedback please! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgLRU1frLTQ
Nickle Creek sounds good huh?

[N2865C]

So the Poker Run is a race to pick up cards and get to the finish line first?

The ones I have done no racing was involved, although there was a reasonable time limit to get back. High hand at the end of the day won. There were flour bombing and spot landing contests at the last (home base) stop. They were a lot of fun and covered some pretty country. It makes it a nice, low pressure tour that gives even new pilots a chance to win something.

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

As John says they are not a race but an excuse to fly to several points and pick up a card. Highest hand at the end wins. No skill envolved as far as the card playing goes but as a pilot out of ones normal area of operations it usually requires a little extra effort in the pilot skills area.

George's addition of several aviaton type problems was fun but it did add complexity to the day both in understanding what was expected and logisitcally for George to carry it all out. For lots of people just flying their plane to a new airport is complex enough. Additional pressure of a contest on top of that is more than they care to handle.

So I think anything planned to inhance the basic poker run exuse to fly some place should be simple and optional. A simple bomb drop, which if we are honest, requires as much luck as a draw of the cards, is fun. Maybe a navigation problem or question that when answered correctly one would get an extra card.

I personally like spot landing contests but that ratchets the contest atmosphere up a bit. I dislike these contests with complex rules and one that restricts the pilot from use of the throttle. Again for most pilots just announcing that people will be watching their landing is enough to make them cringe and not take part let alone tell them they also have to hit a spot.

So what ever you do apply the KISS theory to it. Keep It Simple Stupid

[GAHorn]

The bomb drop at GLS was the navigation problem. If you can't find the spot..you can't hit it.
The least experienced, and a NON-professional pilot in the group almost didn't participate because he was intimidated by all the pro's he knew were in the running... But it was HE who WON! (Now THAT's satisfaction, when an amatuer beats the pros at their own game!)

(Lots of the pros never even found the bomb-drop location, and those that did failed to come nearer the target than the winner....it being his FIRST TIME participation in such a fun contest.)

I contend that such an event is what actually builds confidence for a pilot. (and it makes the rest of us work on improving ourselves.) But if you want to....I guess you can just give away prizes to anyone/everyone.

(These comments are intended only in good-natured fun. Whoever runs the contest gets to make the rules.)

[SteveF]

There are many suggestions and as stated the organizer can pick and choose. If this is taken as a chance to see new scenery and new airports it is a lot of fun. A little competition is fun but when it becomes too competitive some loose sight of the spirit of the flight.

The one thing I would definitely do is send the people out with a time interval in between as it can look a lot like Oshkosh without controllers when everyone arrives at an airport at the same time. It puts a real strain on "see and be seen".

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

George you've made my point exactly. The winner almost didn't join the fun because he was intimidated. What a bunch of garbage that is thinking they can't compete against "professionals"

When was the last time you saw a professional through a flour bomb out his King Air or Citation? Oh that's right I saw a couple of Conquests doing precision engine out landings just the other day. Bet they'd have an advantage flying my 170 in our contest.

Of course George I know you've probably lobbed a few water balloons from your simulator deck so your disqualified.

I'm with Steve. A little competition or challenge is OK and adds to the fun. Just don't go overboard.

[N4281V]

I was chair many years ago for our 99s chapter poker run.

VFR weather only (consider crosswind limits)

Could start at any of the designated airports and purchase a hand there or in advance from chapter member. 'Bout all were purchased at an airport.

Gave plenty of time for the slowest participant (maybe J3 or C150 type) to get to all airports before deadline at terminus

Participant could make up cards at terminus if they couldn't (or didn't want) to fly to all airports

Judges decisions are final

Maybe a couple of cool prizes (cash, headsets, etc) - one from each airport is enough

Food to eat at terminus while hand order is determined. Nothing like a bunch of pilots sitting around while you are trying to figure this out....

I think we sold a hand for $5 and 3 for $12 - but we were raising scholarship money....

If it ain't fun, something is wrong!

Good luck!
Ann

[GAHorn]

George you've made my point exactly. The winner almost didn't join the fun because he was intimidated. .

That's why handicaps are good. They make it more fair.

When was the last time you saw a professional through a flour bomb out his King Air or Citation? ...

That's why the flour bomb was the goal of a navigation problem... the navigation was the challenge (many pro's can't do without their gps's and the problem did not allow gps to be of much help...it was pilotage and dead-reckoning).
The bomb-drop itself, if you found the location, was a free-for-all that provided as much game-of-chance as any poker run....pilot experience had no merit in that activity... so I don't think I made your point for you at all. The scenario at GLS was intended to have something for everyone at every experience level. Trophies were awarded for each activity: One for navigation, one for bomb drop, one for airmanship (the fuel consumption problem) and one even was awarded to Jay and Doug for wandering around aimlessly.
But a poker run is a no-brainer-for-blondes activity.

[N2865C]

But a poker run is a no-brainer-for-blondes activity.

Well George, we all know you have more brains than the rest of us, but I just want to point out that I'm a brunette and I thoroughly enjoyed the few poker runs I participated in. I agree with N9149A. Keep it simple, work hard to make everyone, especially newcomers and the less experienced feel included and everyone will have fun (except those needing to prove they are smarter than everyone else).

[cessna170bdriver]

George's flyout was a refreshing change of pace from the standard fly-out/poker run. Even though I forgot about magnetic variation and therefore didn't find the "spot", I THOUROUGHLY enjoyed the challenge. At least I was close enough to find Palacios for lunch!

Dave, if you do decide to do a poker run, seal each card in it's own security envelope to prevent "creative exchanges" among the participants. (One full deck per airport).

Miles

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

George, first I would like to emphasize I'm not criticizing your event. It was obvious there was a lot of time, thought and effort put into it and I appreciate that. I had a lot of fun teaching Jim how his GPS could be used to accomplish the task at hand and I think Jim learn something about his GPS as well. As noted we did not succeed in the task of finding the bomb drop.

But you and I know that your event did not go without complications with logistics which at least I felt raised the stress level for the event organizers and so it did for me a participant and perhaps others as well. There was also some confusion as to what was expected or the point of some of the tasks of the event. This is all to be expected as things get more complicated.

The flip side is that to a point more effort by the event organizer and contestants can reap more reward.

The key is to find a balance between effort, risk and reward. Isn't that one of life's lessons?

In my experience with these types of "contests" the participants usually are not geared up for much complication and so simple usually works better than a more complicated event.

But hey I could be way out in left field here. Maybe what our conventions need is some real serious drop dead competition with rule books and all to raise participation.

[GAHorn]

I didn't think of it as criticism of the GLS event at all.
As for the "stress"... the difficulty of any such event is in the preparation. Finding a suitable (and safe) route for the planned flight is important. The host should actually fly the route himself prior to the actual event. The host should maintain close supervision of voluteers. (It'd be difficult to diplomatically explain that last comment publicly... let's just say that some of my volunteers didn't do their preparations as promised, and didn't do their homework. A last minute volunteer (Ol' Gar) stepped in and greatly assisted in covering for a slacker. But all-in-all, it was not a difficult event to provide at all.)

For those curious about the GLS event it consisted of:
A wx and route briefing for 3 legs. (standard sectional chart req'd)
About two dozen aircraft launched at 3 min intervals along the planned path (short field takeoff.)
The first leg was of about 60 nm length along the sea-coast, mostly for sight-seeing purposes (but included a significant observation sight to be later reported on.... it was the heliostat moored at the mouth of the Colorado River.) This first leg landed (wheel landing) at a small airport, where a local restaraunt provided transport for lunch.
The second leg had several dead-reckoning/pilotage-waypoints to be used to locate a large Japanese battle flag laid out on a private grass runway (the bomb drop target.) This leg was also about 60 nm length.
The 3rd leg (25 nm) was an "escape route" after the bomb drop to a major highway intersection and a WW-2 Navy dirigible hangar, and a turn to the original departure airport, where a 3-point spot landing was to be made.
Pilot's then were to fill out a "guestimate" of their fuel status, and all aircraft rec'd a fuel discount on a fill-up. The pilot who was most correct in the amount req'd to fillup won an airmanship award. (closest 1/10th gal.)

[GAHorn]

In a follow-up email, Kirby Boyd, N23AD, (who won the bomb-drop along with co-pilot Gwen) sent me the following report of his experience:

Bombing Mission?
We had never dropped anything out of the window or flown a “navigation problem” since getting my license.

So, we were reluctant to participate. All we wanted to do was to punch a destination into the GPS and fly out for a good lunch.

None the less, my wife encouraged me to go to the briefing, just to see what was going on; at least it wasn’t at 0500!

As we crowded into the Mission Briefing Room; the mission navigation details were issued. A “recon photo” of the target was passed hand to hand, around the room. General Bickford addressed the airmen; crucial aerial reconnaissance information was needed AND the enemy advance must be slowed. This was a desperate mission, casualties would be high; volunteers only. I was hooked! As we emerged from the Briefing Room, my wife knew something had changed; before she could speak I told he we needed to pick up our ordinance, get it armed by weapons officer Horn and report to the flight line.

She realized it was too late. Our mild mannered 170 “Sweetheart” had transformed into a Curtiss SB-2C Helldiver. Fueled and fully armed with 1900 rumbling horsepower impatiently waiting to roar into the sky. Wait a minute, where did that come from? Had I mentioned that my father had served on the Lexington in the Pacific, Bombing Squadron 94?

The first legs of the mission went by quickly but we managed to follow them and find the restaurant. The natives treated us well and we were treated to steak, shrimp and pie fit for kings.

While waiting for take off, I reviewed the final navigation notes with Ken. Lighter on fuel now but laden with lunch, our craft struggled into the hot coastal sky. The final legs passed as tension mounted. We began a decent for what we knew would be our only pass on the unseen target. Open weapons bay, target should be dead ahead! Wait; tall trees, is it in the corridor on the left or the one on the right? As we screamed own ward just above the trees a glint of white and red off of the flag revealed the location of the target. Steady now; hold on, hold it, bombs away! Now lightened by the release of our ordinance I pulled up hard and executed the escape maneuver. We evaded detection by the enemy during the return legs and photographed the damage to the Navy’s dirigible hanger before returning to base.

Beginners Luck? Was The Force with us? I wonder if the Lord just allowed my Dad to provide a wee bit of help to his son.

Who says kids have all of the fun!

A special thanks to the organizers for providing a memory I will have for the rest of my life; and a very unique trophy.