Holding Pattern Question

Iceman07 · Post by **Iceman07** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:45 pm

OK, I admit it, it's been quite a while since I've done any real IFR, but a few days ago, I was acting as a safety pilot for a (I think) very experienced CFII.

We did an ILS into KBDL then went missed at KBDL and went to HFD for the published hold (then the VOR or GPS-A into KHFD):

http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0802/00189VGA.PDF

Bradley cleared us to HFD for the hold (No other instructions) and the CFII entered the hold (no problem there), but he did not start a timer/watch on eithier the inbound or outbound legs. When I asked him about it, he said that he was "using the GPS to stay with 5 miles of the fix".

OK, so it's been bugging me: On the chart there is no mention of DME and the controller didn't give us a DME limit, so the question is should he have timed the hold? Or is there something I'm missing?

TIA

Rich

KG · Post by KG » Fri Feb 22, 2008 3:56 pm

I don't see where you are missing anything. In the absence of a modified clearance, this holding pattern should have a one minute leg. Depending on the speed of your airplane, this could be quite different from a five mile leg.

jatkins · Post by **jatkins** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 4:49 pm

Rich, When I looked at this approach chart I see, "1 min " on the chart ,right inside the holding diagram ?

In my experience , if you want 5 or 10 mile legs , all one needs to do is to request it.

I am going to suggest, the controllers are expecting you , and other people holding to fly " 1 min ' legs , and IF the wind is significant , failure to do , may cause some problems.

John

Iceman07 · Post by **Iceman07** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 5:03 pm

jatkins wrote:Rich, When I looked at this approach chart I see, "1 min " on the chart ,right inside the holding diagram ?

In my experience , if you want 5 or 10 mile legs , all one needs to do is to request it.

I am going to suggest, the controllers are expecting you , and other people holding to fly " 1 min ' legs , and IF the wind is significant , failure to do , may cause some problems.

John

Well, that's my take, also. I suppose it is possible that he did indeed request 5 mile legs, but if he did, I sure didn't catch it

The wind was really blowing from the south that night, so he had a pretty short (time wise) inbound leg.

Robert Eilers · Post by **Robert Eilers** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 9:26 pm

I have always taught the objective of a holding pattern is a one minute inbound leg - barring instructions or requests otherwise. The outbound leg is adjusted (time and distance) to achieve the one minute inbound leg. Depending on the holding speed of the aircraft the legs in nautical miles can be longer or shorter. The primary objective of a published holding pattern is to provide a place to safely stage aircraft, or a course reversal. As long as the aircraft operates within the airspace designed for the hold the pilot could probably fly figure patterns.