Loss of log books

[Dward]

Hello All,

I am hoping some of you will take time to help me with a small dilemma. We suffered a house fire on New Years Eve and lost basically all our personal stuff except what we had on at the time. My family and I are safe, thank you God, and our community has come out in force so we want for nothing. But now comes the daunting task of trying to document and place a value on all our home’s contents. This is where I need help. I haven’t asked my insurance adjuster yet if they are covered but can anyone give me an idea of what my A/C log books were worth. I’m sure my 170 is worth less without them. I realize this is a difficult and very subjective question but I would very much like to hear your opinions. If you need a reply it may take me awhile as my computer access is now more limited.

Thank you in advance,

Dave

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Dave I'm sorry to hear of your problem.

Besides the hull value, you need records in order to use the aircraft. Without logs you can't prove it's airworthy. So as a minimum you need to get an estimate for an annual inspection which would include log recreation. At least a basic log with estimates to get your plane airworthy. Start with a CD of your aircraft records from Oak City. Hopefully that will fill in some big holes as far as STCs and some other maintenance and give you better ideas where the aircraft stood as far as actual hours.

After the basic log which might only say the aircraft has an estimated X number of hours and the engine x number you can start filling in and narrowing down the exact hours as you think of ways to substantiate them. Maybe your personal log book if you didn't loose that can be used as well.

Basically any evidence you can gather to substantiate hours on the airframe, including proof that the records were actually destroyed will help somewhat recoup the value lost.

[ronjenx]

This has inspired me to take digital photos of my brother's log books.
Probably not a legal substitute, but something to look at.

[GAHorn]

Bruce's comments are one of the very real reasons this is such a good group! He is right on the nailhead with his advice.

1-Contact your maintenance facility and obtain a copy of every record and invoice they have. (They likely can re-produce your last annual inspection in order to continue operation of your aircraft. They will also have records of installed equipment, etc etc.)
2- Obtain the FAA records from OKC. Not only the microfiche, but make paper copies also. It is especially important to obtain records of STC's, modifications, and major repairs of damage, etc.. It is also wise to contact STC-holders and provide them proof of your loss in an effort to persuade them to replace the lost installation/approvals and instructions for continued airworthiness. Don't fail to re-document STCs installed prior to your ownership of the aircraft...including installation instructions. Simply having a copy of a 337 from FAA is not sufficient data for continued airworthiness.
3- Obtain a new title search for future record-keeping purposes and proof of chain-of-ownership/dates.
4- Keep insurance company claims records.
5- Be certain to obtain and retain PROOF of LOSS. This is probably required by your ins. co., but will also be invaluable in preserving the value of your aircraft.

For a Part 91 operator, loss of original logs has inestimable intrinsic value. For a commercial operator, the required inspections and accy-times will likely require overhaul/replacement and the cost of those inspections/replacements can be a good estimate of the value-of-loss.

I'll refer to the true story of when I once almost purchased a Beech Travel-Air and the seller claimed the logs were lost in a fire. I accidentally discovered that, 1- Yes, there was a fire that burned a bunch of aircrft logs including some Travel-Airs, and 2- Yes, the person who re-created the logbooks was found and confirmed the loss, but...3- the seller of the airplane in question had merely been duped into believing HIS airplane was in the group of burnt logs. In fact, the subject airplane was masquerading as an airplane with burnt logs when, in reality, it was not the subject of the actual fire!
So...... obtain PROOF of YOUR airplane logs likely being consumed in a fire while YOU owned the airplane and proof that your present maintenance facility has a willingness to sign onto the recreation of records of that aircraft.

(For further reading on this subject: http://www.cessna170.org/forums/viewtop ... ire#p31602

[Brad Brady]

WOW Dave,
Sorry to hear of your fire. I've never had a house fire, but I lost my shop and storage to a fire in 2001. I'm still finding things missing. I wouldn't wish a fire on my worst enemy. I keep a file of every aircraft I annual (in a fire proof file cabinet). So I have a detailed account of the times at annual. I also make a new AD compliance sheet when I first see an airplane, with how each AD was met, the time, and who performed the work. So for me it wouldn't be to hard to recreate logs. As Bruce and George mentioned, the hard part is verifying the string of ownership. That should be in a CD you can get from OK City, as mentioned. Good luck, I realy feel for you......Brad

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

While it won't help Dave there is nothing wrong with digital images of logs. Bet Dave wished he had them.

[Dward]

I used to read those old log books for fun and to learn more about my 170. I sure wish I had spent some of that time scanning them onto CD’s

P.S. Take some advice from someone with experience. Don’t go to bed tonight until your smoke detectors are working and if your house ever catches fire don’t try to save anything just get your family and yourself out!

[ronjenx]

This has inspired me to take digital photos of my brother's log books.
Probably not a legal substitute, but something to look at.

I used to read those old log books for fun and to learn more about my 170. I sure wish I had spent some of that time scanning them onto CD’s

P.S. Take some advice from someone with experience. Don’t go to bed tonight until your smoke detectors are working and if your house ever catches fire don’t try to save anything just get your family and yourself out!

Done! I took digital photos, though. Scanning was looking much to slow.
I set up a piece of cardboard, at a 45° angle, on top of the stove so the hood light would illuminate the book, making no flash required. I put a joggle in the cardboard so the book would not slide down. Click, flip, click, flip, etc., two pages at a time.

[hilltop170]

Done! I took digital photos, though. Scanning was looking much to slow.
I set up a piece of cardboard, at a 45° angle, on top of the stove so the hood light would illuminate the book, making no flash required. I put a joggle in the cardboard so the book would not slide down. Click, flip, click, flip, etc., two pages at a time.

Great idea! Yankee ingenuity strikes again.

My log books are the short, wide ones. I think I'll try to photo my engine and airframe at the same time by stacking one above the other to reduce the number of pictures.