Rat Plane Repair and Insurance -update

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

.... I still don't know how you guys handle 2 or more planes. One keeps me busy & broke While looking remember to look for one of those GREEN ones

Frank the trick to owning two airplanes is closing your eyes as you write the checks. Actually it takes lots of friends who help to keep the cost down by doing annual inspections for trade or very little cash outlay and of course I do most of the work under their supervision.

Actually owning two airplanes came into the equation and thought of what to do. It made no practical sense for me to spend 3/4 of the value of a plane to fix it only to sell it, or try to sell it, when it's fixed. It's actually probably more desirable in it's wrecked state and reduced value to someone to repair than it would be fix and in the airworthy market.

Frank if you looked at the photo earlier in this thread you may have noticed my buddies plane that I might consider a partnership in IS green and a true A model to boot. Look out George.

[voorheesh]

N7A is a good looking airplane. I like 170s in any color. You will have to get used to some ATC guys asking for your full call sign like I do in N167 when I check in the first time. How do you like the Xwind gear? I know a couple here in Central CA who have had a 170B with Xwind gear since new. She (a CFI) wouldn't leave home without it and he doesn't really care for it but has learned to live with it. They also have a great old air knocker. I got to try out the 170B one time and it seems a little strange when that gear clicks in and you start going kind of sideways. You're still going straight but the plane feels a little crooked. Maybe some wouldn't notice the difference. Good luck and hope you get back in a 170 soon.

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Thanks Voorheesh, N7A looks a lot better in a photo in the air than it does at 10 ft on the ground. Believe me I will not be loosing any points in the RP category if I were to enter it. But it flies true and has always out climbed my 170 for some reason I could never figure out. Maybe because it's green.

As for the cross wind gear, it is all my buddy knows and he won't have it any different. He's got at least one whole extra set of gear for parts and then some. Has claimed it's saved 7A many times over as it was used for extensive pilot training from the mid 60s through the early 90s. It is very weird when the gear kicks out but you get use to it. I've never purposely tried to use the gear when landing though I have taken of sideways several times. As for the maintenance he has personally disassembled them and gone over them every year at annual making sure every thing is wearing even and making adjustments as necessary to make them work well. He knows them well and will take them a part in a heart beat if he feels they aren't working just right. He thinks they are pretty simple and thinks people make much to do about nothing when it comes to them.

As for the ATC guys the short N# is the number one reason my buddy only makes radio calls to ATC when absolutely necessary. They almost ALWAYS scold him for checking in without giving his full call sign. He doesn't know what to say and clams up. When I'm at the controls and they scold me I usually fire back it WAS the full call sign but I could make up some more numbers if they insist. That usually stops them cold.

[jrenwick]

Hi Bruce,

I think you've probably made the right decision to let the insurance total 49A. You'll surely be back in the air sooner that way.

So, with the crosswind gear, has N7A ever had to have its gear box repaired? Seems like many or most 170s have had major repairs in that area.

I think if it was my airplane, I'd get in the habit of saying something like "Smallville tower, Cessna November seven alpha, full call sign, ten south, landing with alpha...."

[3958v]

Bruce Glad to hear your still planning to keep with the 170s. Hope some one keeps your plane flying or maybe your engine can keep another one flying. Is N7A the same plane I saw get hit by a Kitfox at Smoketown a few years back? If it is that would probably have been the one time I would have liked having the crosswind gear. Bill K

[W.J.Langholz]

Rat Fink.jpg

Got to get the sticker in the window

W.

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

John adding "full call sign" has been done and I'm not sure it helps because the controller has to take a few seconds to think about the non standard transmission. Besides that doesn't really roll of the tongue.

In the 35 years or 7A was used for training the gear was ripped out at least once but not because of a ground loop. It was operated out of a one way 1300ft grass strip with the open end of the field being a road with an elevation change to the road of about 2 ft and gullies on each side. There were true 50ft trees, 50 ft off the other end. Idle for student training taking off down wind with a slight dog leg after airborn for trees across the road. A student solo came in over the 50ft trees and set down far down the runway and couldn't get it stopped till in was in the road minus at least one landing gear leg. BTW there were a couple of landing gear lost to that road but only once to 7A.

Bill, yes it was 7A you saw hit by a Kitfox at Smoketown. It was a fly-in breakfast and the local chapter of the CAP were ground handling aircraft. Smoketown has a taxiway that crossed the downwind runway at 45 degrees. My buddy was stopped by ground handlers for landing traffic and sitting in a position his left wing blocked his view of anything that might have been landing on very short final down wind. Ground handlers cleared him across the runway right in front of a Kitfox landing down wind opposite all other traffic.

The Kitfox hit 7A with it's right wing at about mid point and outward of 7A's. The Kitfox was I'd say at about 40 mph or less maybe and a few feet off the ground at impact. 7A was spin to the right and the Kitfox pancaked to the ground spinning right and no further contact was made. No was was injured which was remarkable considering.

The left wing on 7A was ripped from it's rear carry through forward enough to break the fuel line dumping fuel all over. The left wing went for repair and extensive corrosion was found so the right wing also went for rebuild. The flap cables being pulled from impact also damaged the bulkhead just rear of the baggage area and needed repair. I was involved with lots of the disassembly and all of the final reassembly and rigging. I made the first test flight after the accident.

No 7A is NOT a fine "no damagae history" example of a 170, but a fine example of an aircraft used for it's intended purpose with expected damage, wear and repair.

[3958v]

I remember that accident well. It was one of those "there but for the grace of god go I" situations for me. I had just crossed the runway before him and was on the taxiway directly beside him when the Kitfox who had decided to use a different runway than had been used by anyone else all day landed and hit him on the runway. I was amazed that no one got hurt as I recall the Kitfox had not actually touched the runway yet. I sure learned a lesson regarding looking in all directions before taxing on to a runway. If the Kitfox had arrived just a minute or so sooner it would have been me. Good that they found the corrosion and fixed it. Anyway good luck and I hope to see you at some flyins soon. Bill K.

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

The Kitfox hit him mid air before touching the ground. I happen to be watching the Kitfox right to impact because I couldn't believe he was using opposite traffic as all the other aircraft that day. Leroy was lulled into a false sense of security by having and simply following the ground guide who flagged him across. Accidents rarely only have one component in a chain leading to the accident and this one is a classic example of that.

BTW Leroy had to take a check ride of sorts with the FAA. That took place after the airplane was repaired about a 1-1/2 years after the accident. The inspector asked Leroy what had gone wrong so he could be sure Leroy had been retrained. So he and Leroy taxied across the runway after Leroy insured there was no landing traffic, and the check ride was over.