Dennis wrote:Actually, All flight control, and cable rigging, tensions, dimensions, and degrees of travel are in the Pilots Handbook. best regards Mr Obvious
And there it is.
Ruder rig.jpg
Page 43 in the A model owners manual, page 51 in the B model owners manual. 6" from the firewall.
Without a single source of maintenance information for this aircraft the toughest part of finding info is remembering where you saw something, if you even saw it. George is pretty darn good at remembering these types of things and where the info is located. I certainly wouldn't bet against George with such things anyway. Apparently George told Del and Del told me but Del didn't actually remember it seemed where George had told him the info was.
Anyway it's nice to know that if I'd just looked in any one of the 3 paper copies of the owners manuals or the electronic one I have I'd have found the information or at least I should have.
Thanks Dennis.
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Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
I too never thought to look at the owner's manual for this maintenance information. There is a lot of useful stuff in that little booklet. Another similar measurement is included for rigging the elevators. It calls for 1/2" of space between firewall and the edge of the chain sprocket hub on the control column with the elevator in the full down position. (Pg. 52 in the '52-55 model Owner's Manual). There is also some bad information there. For example, it lists the elevator travel in the text as 26 degrees +1 -0 up and 20 degrees +1 -0 down. This matches the TCDS. But in Fig. 12 it shows 28 degrees up and 17 degrees down which is correct for the C-170 and C-170A but not the C-170B.
So this brings up the recently discussed topic of the IPC not being "approved data" in the FAA's eyes. Is the Owner's Manual considered "approved data" for maintaining our aircraft?
The Owner's Manual is not an approved document. The TCDS is an approved document. I have personally pointed out errors in the TDCS (rev 52) which resulted in rev 53, also containing errors which I pointed out to FAA-OKC, which resulted in revision 54 being issued, itself containing errors which they promise to correct*.
(ain't nothing perfect except creation itself....and it's changing)
* See pg 14, in which the placard (for models 170A/B) "both tanks on for takeoff" and rear seat must not be occupied" is listed under the Normal category.
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention. An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
bagarre wrote:Does anyone know the correct length for the straps that go from the rudder horn to the turnbuckle (IPC Figure 65A PN 0310219-2) ?
Mine are 1.5 inches center to center that seems kinda long. My turnbuckles are nearly bottomed out and my pedals are too far forward.
I'm thinking I can put in shorter straps back there to help the issue.
Thanks.
I'm wondering if your rudder cables are incorrect...or incorrectly routed...or if any of your pulley's have been changed out to different than original sizes. The PN 0310219-2 does not accompany Fig 65-A...it accompanies Fig 65 on page 107 as Item 31. The distance, center-to-center on mine is 1.75" (one and three-quarters inch).
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention. An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
bagarre,
To add to what George has pointed out sometimes the wrong length turn buckle barrels (An155-32s) or the wrong turn buckle eyes (AN165-22S and An165-22L) sneak up in the tail of the airplane. Sorry I do not know the demensions of the proper parts.
John E. Barrett
aka. Johneb
Sent from my "Cray Super Computer"
I'll bet you don't have the correct turnbuckle parts. It makes a difference. Should be 2 AN155-32S Barrels, These are the short barrels. And 1 each AN165-22S (short right hand thread) and AN165-22L (Long right hand thread) eye.
If you have the long barrels they will be to long.
Photo on 2011-04-24 at 13.34.jpg
Short barrel, long eye. You need two short barrels and one long and one short right hand thread eye.
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Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
Sorry, I referenced the wrong figure. It is Fig 65. I shouldn't drink and post
I'll have to verify the turnbuckles. If I remember right, mine looked longer than that in the photo.
I hope the cables are of the right length and routed properly with the right pulleys. If only because that takes a lot more work to verify
I have no log entries of the pulleys ever being swapped out but, that means little.
This conversation could very easily segway into the parking brake issue, BTW. With the cables too long, it is very possible to lock up a brake caliper. It happened to me yesterday while practicing crosswind landings. I didn't ground loop her but she did head for the trees when she touched down and it took most all the left rudder and some brake to keep in straight. I figured it was a gust of wind at first but then it was a real pain to taxi straight. As it turned out, the right caliper parking brake hung up and the brake was dragging. I could reproduce it on the ground too.
bagarre wrote:This conversation could very easily segway into the parking brake issue, BTW. With the cables too long, it is very possible to lock up a brake caliper. It happened to me yesterday while practicing crosswind landings. I didn't ground loop her but she did head for the trees when she touched down and it took most all the left rudder and some brake to keep in straight. I figured it was a gust of wind at first but then it was a real pain to taxi straight. As it turned out, the right caliper parking brake hung up and the brake was dragging. I could reproduce it on the ground too.
David I warned against this exact thing, the cables being to long exacerbating the parking break issue, last summer when I discovered issues with my GoodYear brakes being energized with mere rudder displacement. Glad all worked out for you this time.
CAUTION - My forum posts may be worth what you paid for them!
Bruce Fenstermacher, Past President, TIC170A
Email: brucefenster at gmail.com
bagarre wrote:...This conversation could very easily segway into the parking brake issue, BTW. ...
I've long gotten over the realization that not everyone hangs onto/believes my every-word... .... but it does astonish/puzzle me when I hear of someone who has read or heard of my campaign to get the parking brakes and associated hardware removed from these airplnaes...but they keep putting it off...or simply don't believe it...until they suffer a near-event or actually end up with a damaged airplane.
One more time: REMOVE ALL PARKING BRAKE HARDWARE from Cessna 170's including the locking plate/lever/latches on top of the brake master cylinders.
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'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention. An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
John Renwick
Minneapolis, MN
Former owner, '55 C-170B, N4401B
'42 J-3 Cub, N62088
'50 Swift GC-1B, N2431B, Oshkosh 2009 Outstanding Swift Award, 2016 Best Continuously Maintained Swift
I had a look at the connections.
My barrels look longer than that and my eyes are the same length..and the left side has homemade tangs that are longer than the right.
To be safe, I'm ordering two new barrels two eyes and the tangs.
After that, I hope things will be better.
Cheers.
(Edit) Does anyone know of a source for the links (Rudder horn to Eye)? I Can't find them on Aircraft Spruce.
If ever there were a perfect opportunity to participate in "Owner Produced Parts"...this is it. 16 ga. Plain steel, painted or cad plated, drilled 1.75 center to center.
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention. An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
bagarre wrote:Just called them up. They have them and they are listed at $172.00 each
Verified the part number and politely said Thanks but no thanks.
Yes. Owner produced part looks like a great option.
They didn't have any L-19 bumpers. I was thinking about adding those too.
Perhaps that explains why they still have 54 of them.
What "bumper" are you talking about? Do you mean the rudder bellcrank bumper? PN 0660341 available from Air Repair? 662-846-0228
'53 B-model N146YS SN:25713
50th Anniversary of Flight Model. Winner-Best Original 170B, 100th Anniversary of Flight Convention. An originality nut (mostly) for the right reasons.
Cessna® is a registered trademark of Textron Aviation, Inc. The International Cessna® 170 Association is an independent owners/operators association dedicated to C170 aircraft and early O-300-powered C172s. We are not affiliated with Cessna® or Textron Aviation, Inc. in any way.
.... but it does astonish/puzzle me when I hear of someone who has read or heard of my campaign to get the parking brakes and associated hardware removed from these airplnaes...but they keep putting it off...or simply don't believe it...until they suffer a near-event or actually end up with a damaged airplane.
