When do I decide to reject a TakeOff....???

[GAHorn]

When does one decide to reject a takeoff????

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkUceluI ... re=related

[Blue4]

The answer to the "when" question is NOW.

Decide NOW, "If X happens, I'll abort." If I'm not airborne by this point ... If I don't have XX knots by then ...

Its all about what iffing. Good video, George.
-S

[blueldr]

Boy! That old Goose was sure a rugged SOB!

[minton]

Staged for a movie??

[GAHorn]

I first saw this video in a RTO-course taught by George Shanks, American AirLines, (Retired) in a course he taught. It was presented as a failed RTO. If you listen you can hear one engine roll-back...and the airplane yaws wildly-right. The pilot decides to reject and retards the left throttle (straightening the airplane out) except at that moment the right engine re-caught (you can hear it come up on power) and the pilot tries to bring the left engine back up.... Decsions-Decisions....

Every multi-pilot is supposed to have already made up his mind at what speed a malfunction will result in a RTO... he makes that decision before he starts engines.

There's nothing preventing a single-engine pilot from doing the same.... this video was used to emphasize the importance of making a decision ...and sticking to it.

[russfarris]

I happen to know some of the story on this. It was being filmed for a movie in Costa Rica (Endless Summer 2, 1994) but wasn't staged, it was a real accident. The pilot was none other than retired TWA captain Harvey "Hoot" Gibson, famous for a high-altitude upset in a 727 in 1979; they completed two barrel rolls and nearly exceeded Mach 1, recovering at around 6,000 feet. The NTSB report suggested it was caused by Gibson extending the trailing edge flaps two degreees and pulling the CBs so that leading-edge slats would stay retracted, which the captain denied doing till the end of his life.

Russ Farris

[canav8]

Hoot is a neighbor of mine and frequents my watering hole often. This was an engine failure at take off as discribed. Story is more interesting as Hoot is. Doug

[russfarris]

Looks like the report of Hoot's passing was greatly exagerated - my apologies!

Having spent many hours at the helm of a 727 (my favorite all-time airliner) I believe in Hoot's innocence in this matter. ALPA showed several documented 727 uncommanded slat extensions, but the NTSB discounted them. Please give Captain Gibson my best regards, he's an unsung hero in my book. Russ Farris

[GAHorn]

I know of at least THREE....."Hoot" Gibsons. ...so it's possible to discuss someone with that name and not be talking about the same person. At least three of them were/are pilots, and every time I hear of one I wonder which is the subject of the story. (There's the famous rodeo cowboy who became a silent film actor, Edmund "Hoot" Gibson:
There's the shuttle astronaut, Robert "Hoot" Gibson, (with whom I share a past-common-career of Hawker-jet demonstration pilot):



And there was Ralph "Hoot" Gibson, USAF Thunderbirds lead pilot and Korean Ace. There is the former football star with the Raiders/Chargers who became head coach at Tulsa U., Claude "Hoot" Gibson...

I guess my point is that "Hoot" was a famous nickname for anyone whose surname was Gibson ever since the famous movie actor who always saved-the-pretty-girl.

Harvey "Hoot" Gibson, TWA captain of the famous 1979 Boeing-727 flight, was the subject of a Peter Garrison story in a Flying Magazine article which I've kept for years, and makes for interesting reading.

TWA Harvey Hoot Gibson.pdf

When I went thru 727 F.E. school he was the subject of that TWA incident taught in class. (The leading edge actuator breakers were referred to as "Hoot Gibson breakers" to distinguish them from the leading edge deployed indicator breakers. At least they were in class. Having never actually flown the airplane I can only rely on those who have, as to whether that was common parlance. The classroom instructor told us that the CVR erasure was condemning, as it contained 30 mins of silence, following the one sentence apparently spoken by Hoot as he released the "Erase" button...."That'll keep them guessing." It's always amazing how rumors become "fact", however. A review of the actual NTSB record includes a transcript of the CVR and that comment is not present at all. Capt. Gibson testified he did not recall erasing the tape.)

Regardless, he was a fantastic pilot to recover that airplane and it was that incident which, as a fairly new jet-pilot at the timel, and before the investigation was made public, provoked me to become concerned about high-altitude upset and enter into a course of aerobatic training with Gene Soucy.

Here's the Wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TWA_Flight_841_(1979)

NTSB report which includes the CVR transcript: http://www.airdisaster.com/reports/ntsb/AAR81-08.pdf

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

.....provoked me to become concerned about high-altitude upset and enter into a course of aerobatic training with Gene Soucy.

Are you kidding George. Gene was so upset you were provoked into teaching him aerobatics? Well I would have never guessed.

[canav8]

Looks like the report of Hoot's passing was greatly exagerated - my apologies!

Having spent many hours at the helm of a 727 (my favorite all-time airliner) I believe in Hoot's innocence in this matter. ALPA showed several documented 727 uncommanded slat extensions, but the NTSB discounted them. Please give Captain Gibson my best regards, he's an unsung hero in my book. Russ Farris

He was riding his bicycle past the hangar day before yesterday..If that the definition of deceased, I wouldnt mind being deceased...LOL

[GAHorn]

Are you guys certain you're talking about the same Gibson? FAA records show 7 Gibsons with NV addresses.... none of them rated in airliners, three of them not even pilots...they are controllers or dispatchers. Harvey was supposedly retired in Costa Rica.

[russfarris]

Are you guys certain you're talking about the same Gibson? FAA records show 7 Gibsons with NV addresses.... none of them rated in airliners, three of them not even pilots...they are controllers or dispatchers. Harvey was supposedly retired in Costa Rica.

Yes, that is what I remember from a Wall Street Journal article years after the incident - he had retired to Costa Rica.

Russ Farris

[bagarre]

As a piece of useless trivia;
Hoot Gibson, the astronaut, owns a Cassutt racer that was originally built by Floyd Burt in Pittsburgh PA. I know this because Floyd was a good friend of my dad and my Dad owned that Cassutt for a few years in the early 70's.

I think the only thing left original is the fuselage tho.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/modelaircraft/5534164869

[minton]

It was maybe a landing accident? Retractable floats are on the way down, way to late, or on the way up, way to early. At any rate major Pho-pauh but good viewing