George has a GPS!

[russfarris]

Lurking on the Cessna Owners forum, I see our own George Horn has gone and got hisself a Garmin 196, whoohoo! I'm a little curious; one I'm interested in a hand held for my 180 (if I get it, the pre-buy annual is delayed a week or so), and two, what's the deal with the King KL-88 or whatever it's called Loran the big G has been extolling the virtues of for the last two years . What about it, GA? How about telling us about the 196 - (and where's the cheapest place to get it.) Russ Farris

[N170BP]

I bought mine several months ago, so there's probably a better
deal out there, but I paid $879 from Avionics West. Fantastic
machine.....

Bela P. Havasreti
'54 C-170B N170BP

[zero.one.victor]

I have a garmin Pilot 3,I paid $600 about 4 or 5 yars ago. It's like a smaller 196 with a few less features. Standard price now is $500,or less on special.
Compared to the 196,the disadvantage is the smaller screen--harder to read,&/or less features on each display. The advantage is also the smaller screen (!) -- makes the unit smaller & easier to mount in an out of the way postion-- as well as the lower price.
Either way,it's hard to beat either of these GPS's.

Eric

[flyguy]

WAL LEMMEE TOLE YOU SUMPIN BOUT GAY HORN AND HIS GEE WHIZZ PEE ESS. HE THEENKS NOBODY NOWS NUTHIN BOUT TEKYNIKAL STUFF BUT HIM! HE BOUT SLAPP ME SILLY WHEN I WENT TU TOUCH HIS PREECYOUS "USED" THANG. WHEN WE WUZ GOIN OVER THAR TU KITTY HAWK, HE HAD SCREWED THAT BIG OLE THANG TU THE STEARING WHEEL OF HIS PLANE RITE IN FRUNT U ME AND WHEN I WENT TU TRI IT OUT AN TUCHED SUM BUTTINGS, HE GOT REEL SNOTTY!

NAOW I BIN GEE PEE ESSN ROUN THE COUNTRIE FOR A WHAL AN I NO A LIL BOUT HOW TU DO IT! IFFN HE DIDNT WANT ME TO TUCH THE DAMN THANG HE SHUDDA PUT IT WAY OVER ON HIS SIDE! HEESA FRAID HEED GIT LOSS I GUESS. WUN THANG BOUT HIS "USED" GAROMING ONE 9 SIX - ITS BIG AS A BRIK AN FLOPS HIS WHEEL ROUN IF HE LETS IT GO! I CUDA SHOWD HIM SUM TRIX BUT ITSA KINA HARD TU TELL A SMARTY SUMPIN. SO I JES PULL MY LIL MAGIK=GELLAN 315 OUTER MY PAWKET AND SHOWYED HIM HOW A REEL CHEEPY TEKYNIKAL THANG WORKS. IT TOLE HIM WHEN THE BES TIME TU GO FISHIN AND HUNTIN AND WHEN THE SUN AN MOON WUZ GONNA RIZE ER SET. IT WUZ DOIN ALL THU STUFF THE "BRIK"WUZ DOIN ON 2 LIL OLE AA BATTRIES. THU ONLIEST THANG WUZ WHEN HE GOT TU TRYIUN TU LAN ON THE RONG RYNWAY AT ILM, IT QUIT TELLIN HIM EENY THANG @ ALL! THAT LIL THANG IS SO SMARTT THAT HIT SAID PLANE AS DAY "i AIN'T MESSIN NO MORE WI THIS GUY" AN JES TURN ITSELF OFF!

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Hey Gar, got to tell you that last post was worth tring to decipher

Felt like I was there like a fly hanging upside down on the headliner thinking "boy these two guys sure are strange hanging upside down like that."

[GAHorn]

Ha! Busted!! Boy, you guys don't let a fella slip anything by you!
Well, here's the sorry story.
First off, Ol GAR is full of mudbug mud! That "thang" or "brick" was just exactly that. It was a used Garmin GPS 195,...a predecessor to the 196. (Pacific Coast Avionics has them on sale with a free 30-day trial for $499.) I "trialed" it on the trip over to the convention and back because it was offered with the latest Jeppesen database included, and I thought it would be handy to avoid A.G. Ashcroft's boys from meeting me at any airports along the way.
Ol Gar's comments were all just about "kee-rect" in that it 1) added unwelcome mass to the control wheel due to the yoke-mount. (Any movement of the controls behaved poorly, as if the flight controls were no longer balanced.....which of course they weren't! Beware yoke mounts! ) 2)It was a distraction in the cockpit also due to it's yoke mount. I had mounted it on the co-pilots yoke to keep it out of my way and so Jamie could operate it and keep her interest in the flight's progress at a keen level. (She's become used to me tapping on an engine gauge or switching between magnetos and thoughtfully saying, "Hmmmmn". Now she ignores such antics. ) The result was that I found myself spending far too much time in the cockpit consulting with the thing, that I was doing just exactly what I criticize others for doing, mainly not looking outside the aircraft enough. (This became especially tricky whenever I'd look over there and GAR had changed up my navigation setups without telling me about it,....an offense which normally costs my crewmember's one or both hands. Note: Never let a crewmember change your navigational-radio setup without prior approval! It'll get you hurt. Or at the least, aligned with a different runway than that intended!) (Notice I did not say "wrong" runway. The twr saved me and cleared us to land on the runway I was headed for despite my cockpit distractions.) (Thanks to Harold bringing it to the twr's attention. No thanks to GAR who sat there like a bump on a pickle checking the local tide-tables!)
I returned the 195 because it only mounted vertically such as on a yoke mount. I bought a 196 which has a horizontal screen, a better mount for the top of the panel, and therefore is more of a "heads-up" display. It is within the view of anyone in the cockpit without strain, has a better multi-level gray-scale screen, much more features, as well as instrument approaches and extended runway centerline depictions. It is priced at $889 from Pacific Coast Avionics http://www.pacific-coast-avionics.com/ and includes a free Jeppesen update subscription (one-time) as well as all the accessories. (Instead of their adhesive for attaching the heads-up display mount, I intend to use some special industrial-duty velcro to attach it, so I can transfer it between the plane/boat/car. (The 196 has built-in Aviation/Land/Marine database/usage modes.)

The KLN-88? It remains installed as my airplane's primary navigation radio. Although the GPS 196 is feature-packed and has terrain background basemaps (the KLN-88 has only aviation features in it's moving map display), it is the only legal navigation radio in the airplane. (Handheld GPS's are technically for entertainment value only.) I still think the KLN-88 is an outstanding value for our category airplanes. They can be had for approx. $150 as complete systems.

[flyguy]

I KIN SEE THA CHEW DOANT NO MUCH BOUT MUD BUGS TOO. WAL LEMME TOLE U SUM MORE BOUT EM. THEY GOOOOOD TU EAT CEPT ITS A LIL SKARY FER TEXICIANS TU TRY SUKEN EM HEADS. ISS THU ONE AN ONLY WAY TU GIT THE GOODY OUT EM. AN WHEN YU ER GITTIN REDDY TO COOK EM YU POUR LOTSA SALT ON EM AND THEM LIL BUGGERS DUMP ALL THU MUD INTU THE WATER YER SPRAYIN ON EM.

EENY WAY SHORE AM GLAD U DUMPED THU 'BRIK' FER ANOTHER GPS. I GOTTA ANUTHER OLE MAGIK GELLAN 4000XL AND AM GOIN TO TRADE IT FER A NOTHER NEW ONE CAUSE THEY DOANT WANNA FIX THU ONE I GOTS EENY MORE. IMA GONNA GIT ONE U THEM CULLERD ONES. THEY SAY THEY GONNA LET ME HAV ER FER 299 BUCKS.

SURE GLAD U DINT WHAK OFF MY HANS FER TUCHIN YER GPS!

[GAHorn]

So, when are you gonna have a fly in to demonstrate this mudbug thing?

[russfarris]

Yep George, this bunch doesn't let you get away with anything! Tough room...

Aviation Consumer raved about the 196, even saying the flight instrument mode was a viable backup in case of gyro failure, what's your opinion on that?

Sounds like Ole Gar could benefit from some CRM (cockpit resource management) training! Russ Farris

[N170BP]

I wouldn't want to bet my bacon on that screen.... While the majority
of it would sort of work (to supplement a partial panel situation),
the ersatz turn coordinator just doesn't update quick enough to make
it a true backup should the primary turn coordinator / needle-ball
fail.

If you were in calm air and you needed to make an emergency
descent through a (thin) layer of clouds, it'd be better than nothing.
If the air is bumpy at all, forget it.... You'd be better off hanging your car/house keys from a knob on the panel and using that. Might be why their lawyers made them put the nag screen on there when you pick that panel saying "they ain't responsible for nothing....".

Bela P. Havasreti
'54 C-170B N170BP

[GAHorn]

I respectfully disagree, Bela. I was truly surprised at the speedy update on the 196 "panel" screen.
If you remember that the 196 has no inclinometer (no "ball") and if you keep the airplane coordinated (seat of the pants is close enough), the 196 is virtually as reliable as the real instruments on the panel. The slowest item to update is not the turn indicator,....but the speed indicator.
Remembering that indicated airspeed is a result of flight attitude and power application, delayed somewhat,... and the 196 speed indication is a result of flight attitude and power application, and wind,... (and that there is no other indication for pitch within the 196),... it's my opinion that the pilot operating an airplane with no reference other than a 196 in "panel" mode will have the most difficulty in managing pitch,...not roll. If you are comfortable flying your airplane with no airspeed indication, from a take-off, to level-off, thru descent and landing,...then the 196 is as good as any other flight instrument in the panel (assuming no horizon.)
Russ, the short answer is: Yes. The 196 will substitute pretty nicely for a complete gyroscopic instrument failure. Pitot/Static instruments are another matter. The speed indications lag by 3-5 seconds (which can seem forever when flying IFR) and the altitude indication is off by as much as 300 feet (with my local baro. at 30.09---remember the GPS doesn't know a thing about baro. press.) (Hey, Bela,...did you remember to activate the WAAS feature? That made a huge difference in accuracy. By activating the WAAS, the accuracy changes from 20 foot accuracy to 7 feet or less!) Either way, I would not be any more nervous operating on the 196 panel than I would the real needle-ball-airspeed, should it happen to me.

[N170BP]

I suppose we all have our "comfort" zones (what one person
says will work, or what they're comfortable with may indeed
differ from another person's comfort zone).

As far as WAAS goes, do I have to specifically enable it?
I updated the software and database shortly after I bought
the 196 (it came with a coupon for (1) free database update).

I know I haven't disabled WAAS.... I'll dig around and see if
it's enabled or not.

Bela P. Havasreti
'54 C-170B N170BP

[Kyle Wolfe]

We bought a 196 at OSH from Aircraft Spruce for $860. That was the going rate from all vendors there.

We really like the product, but we're both GPS users having used a King KLN 94 for instrument flying. We've got 25 hours or so under our belt using this gps and like it's features.

Right now we've got it on the yolk, but it's hard for both of us to view it here. And I'm not a fan of having bulk on the control wheels either. I've thought about buying the bean bag and just setting the gps on the dash.

Anyone out there used the bean bag approach, or a RAM mount somewhere else? Would appreciate hearing what's worked for others.

Kyle & Becky Wolfe
N1932C

[dkalwishky]

George; I thought I read where you were more inclined to buy another brand of GPS because the 196 was to expensive Looks like you made the right decision and bought the good one

Dave

[GAHorn]

I don't recall saying that, but I'll agree the 196 isn't the cheapest on the market. For awhile I considered the Lowrance (because it claims to display final appch courses) but I changed my mind because 1) it only has vertical screen orientation preventing dash-mount useage and 2) it only shows extended centerlines rather than true final appch fixes and ILS courses. (It's also too bulky with it's vertical orientation to consider a yoke mount in my opinion.)
That's also the problem I had with the otherwise fantastic 195.
When I finally got over the hump on opening my wallet for a Garmin I even considered a color 295, but I didn't like the idea of it only having a 2-3 hour battery life. I figured that one of the best reasons to own a handheld over a panel-mount was in order to use it in other vehicles and/or in the case of being forced down somewhere. Battery life would be critical in that case, even with sporadic hiking navigation. (You wouldn't use it continuously, but you'd have to let it boot-up/lock-on occasionally which is a high power drain, and color would be the least useful in that scenario as well.) Plus the 196 has later software for approach and simulated panel useage, and has a slightly better screen aspect ratio than the 295 making it present all that info without crowding. (Notice the 295 only shows a couple of data-fields in map mode? The 196 can show up to 10 data-fields and still dispay the map in sizes still legible.)