I0-360 STC discussion?

[blueldr]

I go along all the way with Shawn.(ak2711c) I built up my IO-360 conversion solely for my own satisfaction and enjoyment. The thought of resale never entered my mind and I don't regret a minute or dollar expended. I only wish time and physical infirmities hadn't shut me down at about age 89 when I was just getting good.

[bagarre]

Big airplanes, RC airplanes, boats, motorcycles, bicycles, roller skates... Who actually gets their money back out of their hobbies?

That idea s so flawed and wasted on me. I get into a hobby and spend money on it because I enjoy it. If I wanted to get my money out of it, I'd put it under the mattress and watch TV reruns on Saturdays.

When I was stationed in Italy, I bought a sailboat for $7,000, put another $3,000 into it and sold it two years later for $5,000. I'm so glad I didn't worry about getting my money back out of it or I'd have never sailed to all of those islands in the Med and have all these great memories.

Before that, I bought a brand new Harley and put who knows how much money into it and rode it across half of Europe. With 100,000 miles in her, The bike is in my garage worth 1/10th what I "have invested". Glad I didn't take that advice then either.

If you think about your hobbies as an investment or a savings account, you're in the wrong game.

If a 210hp Cessna 170 is what's going to make you smile all week long, buy it or build it but don't worry about selling it or you'll never do it.

[ak2711c]

Well put David!

[avoight]

In case anyone is confused by my earlier statements, I love my airplane with the extra power and the newer, modern engine. As I said earlier, I grin every time I push the throttle to the wall. I have bulled ahead against common sense, perhaps more than most, as I have utilised a significantly unsupported engine, that sadly, will likely remain that way. The improvement to the safety and performance factor is truly amazing and yes, I can't think of anything that a 180 can do better, off hand. If you love your 170 and are happy with it in every other way, I highly recommend an engine upgrade. Though I would go with a lycoming O-360 or IO-360 Stoots or Del-Air if I did it again to avoid engineering and approval issues. They both offer great support and everything you need to do the conversion. By far the cheapest, best option if you are hiring someone to do the Mod. In closing, the intent of my comments was really to illustrate that an engine Mod is an expensive proposition any way you look at it from my own experience($65K or more, Today, not ten years ago, if you use new components). Sorry if I have beaten this topic to death. Happy flying, regardless of your powerplant preference!
Andy

[blueldr]

Shawn,
Have you put your airplane on floats? If so, what kind and size and how does it do?
When I look back on my time in Alaska, I have to laugh. My Stinson L-5G was approved on Edo 2425s and I could have bought a used set for $1,500 plus about $500 to Edo for fittings for the L-5. What the hell! $2,000 was what I paid for the whole airplane new. Just couldn't cut it on a seargeants pay.

[ghostflyer]

I know this a bit drifting off the subject but I can't help myself. It DOESN'T matter what age you are ,if due to physical limitations you cant fly get your self a younger (perhaps female) a safety pilot . I did this for a 93 yrs young fella who had bought a new 182cessna . I flew him around for a number of years. (As a safety pilot)He was only 19 yrs old when we were flying . Did we have fun and laughs. Never give up.

[marathonrunner]

I have to agree to just do what you want and don't worry about the money. As it has been said, when it is all said and done and you are looking back on your life, what will you regret more? The things you did or, the things you wish you had done.

I went ahead and got a multiple STC for the Aerocets which, much like an IO360 conversion, I did not have to do but wanted them badly enough to forge ahead. I will never ever recoup on just the dollars it cost to get that STC let alone the thousands of hours. It is without a doubt the most expensive modification I have. It also costs enough for the kit and, no one is making a killing on it, that few will even consider it. The 170 crowd is not like the Cub crowd that way Those guys will pay any amount to have the latest mod no matter the cost. I know a few that like to say "I got all the mods" I asked a guy one time how many that was jokingly and he in all seriousness said "39" I said so if I build a Cub and put one more mod on so it has 40 then you will have ll the mods less one right? I was still joking but he did not think it funny.

Anyway no one will ever recoup their investment in an IO 360 installation. Those like the O-360 conversions are least expensive if you buy a plane that already has them.

Happy Flying

[ak2711c]

Dick,I have had it on floats once a few years ago. A very generous buddy of mine let me borrow his Wipline 2100 floats for the summer. They have a 2300 lb bouyancy so it was a good match. It performed even better than I had hoped. Most of my float time before that had been in a Supercub with a 150,160, or 180hp in it and little time in a C-185 and a Beaver. Every float plane I have ever flown when you load it up really heavy it takes a bit to get it on step so on short lakes you ether do a step taxi/step turn then take off or start out perpindicular to your take off run and it rolls up onto step shortly after you straighten out. With this plane loaded really heavy, lets just say several hundred pounds heavier than I probably should have , if I try the "L" shaped take off run it gets on step and reaches take off speed by the time I get about 45 degrees of my 90 degree turn made. On a narrow lake that can be a problem. I learned I had to fly this a little differently than I am used to on floats. I found I would use less lake if I just took off straight instead of having to back off on the power to complete my turn. I think I lost about 10 mph going from bushwheels to floats. I have been working on my buddy and I think I have him convinced to sell me his floats this summer. I have been dieing to get it back on the water.
Shawn

[blueldr]

I've been told that a stock C-170 doesn't make much of a float plane, but,of course, there are damn few stock engined airplanes that are adapted from wheels that really have enough power on floats. I always thought that the Continental IO-360 conversion would make it a real nice performer on floats.
The Noorduyn Norseman C-64 I flew in Alaska had a P&W R1340-AN-1 of 600 HP but it was a direct drive engine with a two bladed -6 0r-12 HS CS prop and what it really needed for float operations was a geared R-1340 engine with a three bladed long prop. I think that was what a lot of the Canadian operators used.

[marathonrunner]

Better try the Aerocet 2200's first. I will let you test drive and do the very reduce power take offs I had to do to get the STC. No rivets, no drag...or a heck of a lot less. Call me when the lakes turn back into water

[ak2711c]

I would love to test drive your Aerocets. For know though its a stretch for me to swing these Wips even though they are almost half of new price. Someday though I would love to have a set of Aerocets. I appreciate you taking one for the team to get those approved.
Shawn

[T. C. Downey]

I just had a talk with Tom Anderson, he gave me these as prices for the IO-360 mod.
$1500 for the engineering, $30 for a set of prints, $5000 for an engine mount, $500 for a header tank.

You still need to manufacturer all the fuel lines, modify the cowl, controls, exhaust, Plus all that, and buy an engine.

[johneeb]

Here is one place you can locate header tank. I have heard of there are other options.

170 progress 2004-02-14 010.jpg

Header tank cover.jpg

[blueldr]

The header tank shown is the Maule tank. That's the kind I ran through my band saw and sliced the thickness in half so that it would all fit behind the upholstery. On the top of the tank, the line going toward the rear is the vent line that goes up the door post and tees into the cross cabin fuel tank vent line. The line on top that comes from the firewall is the excess fuel return from the mechanical fuel injection system pump. There would be two fittings on the bottom of the tank, one being the inlet from the fuel selector valve, the other the being the outlet via the firewall shut off valve to to the gascolator, thence to the electric boost pump, and then to engine driven fuel pump.
I assume that the installation shown is in a C-170. If so, they have installed a "U" yoke so as to be able to center stack their radios, as did I.

[c170b53]

I wonder why the set-up on a XP is not used? The tank fits below the floor on the right, the fuel pump under the floor L/H.