Wife won't fly with me

[blueldr]

The trouble with the C-170 is the lack of arm rests on the front pax seat. You need to install some arm rests and teach her how to keep the airplane aloft by holding UP on them.
My late wife knew the secret and managed to keep a Douglas DC-7C safely aloft all through three over water legs from Travis AFB in California to Honolulu, thence to Wake island, and then on to Guam, back in 1961. She was exhausted when we got there, but, bY God, we made it.

[c170b53]

I've got to agree with the last comment as the last flight complaint was to do with the front seats as well. In my case the Mrs wants the seat to recline so she can sleep. I've got newer 172 seats in the garage but the seat recline isn't that great, might have to do a mod.

[GAHorn]

This thread doesn't need to be moved does it? If anyone doesn't care to read it or participate in it... then don't "click" on it.

Was I actually just accused of disrespectfully threatening my wife's life?

Do you honestly think I just decided one day to say, "Hey, watch this!" and pull some *** **** maneuver to impress my wife?

And I'm not supposed to take offense to this?

If your post is in response to the one I made earlier...I suggest you re-read it.
Especially the part about "To those of you to whom this next statement might already apply: Don't take offense. Don't feel insulted. Feel properly reminded only: (etc etc)" If you wish to be offended by it even after that... then that's your choice.

(I only mentioned Dani's name because of the sweet photos you've published in The 170 News, and your explaination of how she has embraced your flying.... not as any criticism of you.)

However,..to answer more completely..if anyone has taken a "loved one" up and demonstrated training manuevers.... UNLESS THEY ARE GENUINELY "TRAINING" AS A STUDENT PILOT ...and unless the "lesson" has been properly briefed and introduced prior to take-off, with the "student" having the option of not partaking in that flight..... (and in most cases, unless you are a pilot experienced in flight-instruction and qualified to demonstrate the particular manuevers...and that doesn't mean experience showing someone a manuever you "once or twice" have had demonstrated while you were training, ...or might have shown to some buddy on a thrill-ride flight...).... then Yes... it was disrespectful of their safety. It may have not been intentionally disrespectful....but it was.

That is an opinion I have that I believe is strongly supported by experience, and professional flight instructors and pilots world-wide.

Carry it over to driving-lessons. Unless you are a professional trainer of stunt-drivers or law-enforcement pursuit drivers, Would you ever consider taking a loved-one out in the car and demonstrating a slam-on-the-brakes-skidding-turn on a wet road? How about deliberately-driving over a nail-studded board to demonstrate a blow-out at 70 mph? Or while driving at 50 mph suddenly slamming the transmission into reverse...to demonstrate a dropped drive-shaft? How 'bout rear-ending a parked car at 40 mph?
Well...those are just about equivalent emergencies that occur just about as frequently in a drivers lifetime as "stalls and engine-outs" occur in single engined light planes. What possible excuse is there in taking a NON-student through those demonstrations?
Just sayin'..... emergency "demonstrations" have no place in pleasure flying and are not good confidence-manuevers for non-pilots and should be left to qualified instructors teaching bona-fide student pilots.

A reticent companion might be better directed towards a competent flight school for resolution of their fears....than given a wild ride by the person of whose skills they are already fearful. IMO

[bagarre]

"To those of you to whom this next statement might already apply: Don't take offense. Don't feel insulted. Feel properly reminded only: (etc etc)" If you wish to be offended by it even after that... then that's your choice.

A gentleman never insults anyone unintentionally

If this wasn't a public forum, I'd have other comments.

[c170b53]

I wasn't sure Mary Anne was going to fly with me to Bardstown but with the latest discussion it looks like the ipad will be in her lap for this trip. The trap I fall into, is flying all day whereas with her I'm forced to stop more than I normally would. And the stops really make the trip, the trip.
Dick I think your onto something with those thrust recovery seats

[GAHorn]

"To those of you to whom this next statement might already apply: Don't take offense. Don't feel insulted. Feel properly reminded only: (etc etc)" If you wish to be offended by it even after that... then that's your choice.

A gentleman never insults anyone unintentionally

If this wasn't a public forum, I'd have other comments.

I have an email address as well as accept PMs.

My comments were definitely deliberate. They were intended to be thought-provoking. They just weren't written to be insulting. (Unless you don't get the point I made, in which case you definitely need to reconsider why you subject timid passengers to unusual manuevers normally reserved for flight training pilot-applicants....not passengers. Question: Would you feel a bit uneasy if the next time you flew on the airlines....the pilots decided to show everyone what a stall is like? ...or an engine failure? Would you consider THAT professional or responsible behavior?)

[bagarre]

Wow George, you just don't know when to quit.
I was trying to show some restraint but if you insist on continuing this thread, let's.

Accusing someone of being careless, reckless and disrespectful of a loved one's life is insulting and inflammatory.
It's not how grown-ups begin constructive, thought provoking conversation about general aviation safety.
It's how you get your teeth knocked out in a bar.

Trying to hide behind a 'No offence but...' type of prelude is a childish attempt to cover the fact that you are intentionally being insulting and inflammatory.

Likening a basic stall or reducing power to idle and establishing best glide to slamming on the brakes in a high speed turn or a 40 mile an hour collision is simply ignorant and the dumbest thing I've seen you post yet.

Continuing the thread with comments like “you definitely need to reconsider why you subject timid passengers to unusual maneuvers”, after it's become obvious that you've offended someone is just being an ***.

So, to sum it up
To those of you to whom this next statement might already apply: Don't take offense. Don't feel insulted.
Feel properly reminded only:
If you're the type of person that would make the types of comments mentioned above, I think you're an insulting, inflammatory, childish, and ignorant ***.


PS I took the liberty of blanking out the profanity so you wouldn’t have to edit my posts later.

[GAHorn]

David...there's a teaching-tool in which anger is recognized to drive us into what is known as a "reptilian brain".... This is where we no longer are capable of giving an "arms length" assessment of the subject because we're so focused upon our anger and make reflexive responses instead of thoughtful ones. (Trust me, I've got lots of personal experience there.)

Your *** are noted. That language IS childish and deliberately insulting. But I'm not going to be inflamed by it. I'd rather
"patch up" our misunderstanding and get the real message in this thread properly addressed.

You are missing the point. This was not a personal attack upon you or anything you've done in your flight demonstrations.
It was an attempt to get one to back off and, at arm's length, reconsider the actions of such flight demonstrations to those to whom flying is not an obsession (like it is to you and me).
Ask ourselves, ...Is it really very bright to expose timid passengers to training manuevers.
Training manuevers are just that...for Training. Not for passengers.

I've made such mistakes in my past. I've gotten over that implusive behavior...and I AM an instructor. Flight demonstrations are my job. But,Now, years after I was an amatuerish pilot, I gave up amatuerish flying behaviors. I know better than to demonstrate such manuevers to non-students. It's NOT why they are in the airplane with us. If they were interested in such matters (and remember, our wives/girlfriends feel they must act insterested regardless of their true feelings...and be convincing in their charade.)
Amatuers are so excited about their new-found knowlege...they can't wait to show it to someone else. They actually believe they are qualified to do so. And they do it to family, friends, anyone who'll get in the airplane with them because they are so anxious to show off what they "know."
If you can't get away from your anger of my expressing my opinion and view it from arms length, then the problem isn't that I've brought the subject up....it's someone's inability to understand the viewpoint. (My words were not in response to YOUR post, regardless of what you might think. They were in response to the OP. Besides, so what if I think such behavior is reckless and irresponsible. Since when do you need my approval? I only wanted to cause folks to reconsider such actions. It's no skin off my nose what you do to your family. I was only offering constructive criticism hoping to ward off anyone else doing it before thinking further about it.)

I wasn't likening the stall or engine out to slamming the brakes or hitting a parked car as a point-for-point comparision. I was attempting to bring to the imagination what an emergency in a car might compare to a stall or engine out airplane emergency...and that's what they both are...emergencies. There is nothing "childish" about it. Clearly you miss the point. If you like, try another manuever: Have your wife/girlfriend go down the freeway at 70 mph in traffic and without her permission, reach over and turn the key off. Is that a better comparison of equivalently-foolish training manuevers? Reconsider what you'd do to a flight crew of the airline mentioned above if they tried the same stunts in the airliner your wife was in that you tried in the 170.

Feel free to call or PM me and I'll try to make it up to you. I hope to change your view about my purpose, as well as my intentions.

[Sixracer]

My wife flies with me and she is new to me and flying. She likes to participate in anything that makes me happy. She is a little apprehensive about landings and night flying. She is only 5'2" and gets about 3 feet taller on night landings, but never says a word except when they are real good landings. A couple of weeks ago we took a weekday flight to see our Grand daughters play ball. It is only about a 45 min flight, but we ended up leaving there after dark. As I climbed out I let a strong crosswind blow me about 50 degrees off course. I was distracted fiddling with the GPS and trim settings. When I realized I was flying the wrong way I just calmly said O-Oh! something is wrong... She came unglued sat straight up in the seat and had a sick look on her face, but she never said a word. I ask he to get the flashlight and spot light the compass, give her something to do to get her mind off what I was doing. I started talking very camly to her and told her we were heading NW instead of N and what I was going to do to get back on the right flight path. That settled her down. It also helped when I started pointing out the lights of very familiar small towns and a big city on the horizion. She finally settled down when I pointed out a Wal Mart she had shopped at. We had a long talk on the ride home from the airport about her fears. She is comfortable with my flying skills, but has fears she has to overcome. I'm of the opinion that doing unusual manuvers and stunts have no place in her life if I want her to get over her fears. I learned that Just a few wrong words set her fears off. She is a wonderful Life Partner and I want her to enjoy, not fear our flying.

[blueldr]

Then, of course, there's the guy with the ulterior motive that takes his wife up, and scares the hell out of her so she never wants anything to do with his airplane again. Now he's free to fly off someplace to chase strange stuff every week end. Clever devil that he is!

[Sixracer]

You are right. There are guys that go hunting and fishing that never wet a hook or fire a gun.
That is just the way some guys get their kicks and think they are serving their manhood.
Hey, a little Chas'in tail is still no reason to scare the hell out of your wife or partner.
I prefer having my wife with me and us enjoying the pleasures of flying as a team.
After all it took me Chas'in around many years and WW1 (WW=Wrong Wife) and WW11 to find her.
She calls herself RW1 (Right Wife # 1) and I'm not going to argue with that title!! :~0

[bigrenna]

delete

[c170b53]

I was going to say " Don't we all" but like you generalization that's not true either. I'll say this again, only after meeting someone in person will you have a better understanding of their written mannerisms.

[3958v]

I am in complete areement with Jim. I have met both these gentleman and have no doubt that if they met in person they would be the best of friends. I have to say that I was completely surprised when I met George in person as he was nothing like the person I pictured from his posts on the forum. Meeting people in person is just one of the many benefits of attending a convention. Bill K.

[Bruce Fenstermacher]

Jim and Bill have hit the nail on the head. Well Bill might have glanced off the nail a little crooked when he said "they would be best of friends", but friends would not be so much of a reach.

This is the downfall of a forum and the hastily written word.