The International Cessna^® 170 Association

It's been fun for the FAR geeks among us too, Dave! Thanks for bringing it up!

John

Dave what the heck are those blue shaded area objects? I've heard over the years that there is no airspace like that left east of the Mississippi. Don't know if it is true.

In my neck of the woods it is nearly impossible to find any block of airspace that is not within 4nm of a federal airway in order to do a loop or spin in my Cub and meet the requirements of 91.303.

PilotMikeTX wrote:
In fact, those blue shaded areas are almost impossible to find in the lower 48. There are a few in remote mountainous areas out west. When I was instructing and I wanted to show a student an example, I had to get out a Brownsville or El Paso sectional, because it is depicted on the border. The ADIZ "dots" are actually co-located with the blue shaded border.

Mike

I was told once long ago that those blue shaded areas are also areas with little or no radar coverage would that be a myth? We don't have too many in our area either until you go west. Just wondering if we had to call "Myth Busters"

W.

What in hell are these "FARs" that everyone talks about?

As long as we're talking Part 91: Weren't we taught years ago that the Hemispheric Rule for VFR (odd thousands + 500 if you're eastbound, even thousands + 500) gave recommended cruising altitudes? Come to find out, they're mandatory if you're in level cruising flight above 3000' AGL. I'm not positive, but it looks like that change might have snuck into the FARs about 5 years ago. Anybody know about that? (See FAR 91.159.)

John

W.J.Langholz wrote:

PilotMikeTX wrote:
In fact, those blue shaded areas are almost impossible to find in the lower 48. There are a few in remote mountainous areas out west. When I was instructing and I wanted to show a student an example, I had to get out a Brownsville or El Paso sectional, because it is depicted on the border. The ADIZ "dots" are actually co-located with the blue shaded border.

Mike

I was told once long ago that those blue shaded areas are also areas with little or no radar coverage would that be a myth? We don't have too many in our area either until you go west. Just wondering if we had to call "Myth Busters"

W.

I've heard that too, but I'm going to call B.S. on it. Remember, the airspace is there for the purpose of IFR traffic separation. Being separate from other airplanes (and unless landing or takingoff, also the ground) is a good thing. There is no requirement to be under radar surveillance when flying IFR. Think of all those folks in Class A airspace flying across the ocean. If you look at the Alaska chart on the previous page, there is no reason that radar coverage would exist down the middle of an airway, but not 5 miles either side of it. Not to mention I've been at 3500 AGL solidly in Class E and not been in radar contact, so that theory doesn't hold water.

jrenwick wrote:As long as we're talking Part 91: Weren't we taught years ago that the Hemispheric Rule for VFR (odd thousands + 500 if you're eastbound, even thousands + 500) gave recommended cruising altitudes? Come to find out, they're mandatory if you're in level cruising flight above 3000' AGL. I'm not positive, but it looks like that change might have snuck into the FARs about 5 years ago. Anybody know about that? (See FAR 91.159.)

John

Or August 18, 1989, but who's counting anyway?

(It was last ammended in 2004)

John I remember it being volunteery as you do but know that at some point, 1989 appearantly, it became a requirement. Another reason I seldom go over 3000 ft AGL.

Sheesh! Class G... Class E... Class A... below 1200ft... above 14,500ft... All this alphabet soup is making my head spin. I don't think Rocket Science has as many exceptions to the rules. (The laws of physics make MUCH more sense than the laws of man anyway...) I'm (over)due for a BFR, so I guess I need to sit down and do my biennial study of this stuff. Even if you fly IFR, sometimes it's handy to know when you can cancel early.

Miles

Miles - you are opening a whole need bag of worms regarding when to cancel IFR. In my opinion, when shooting the approach into an uncontrolled field when below the clouds and landing is assured canceling IFR and allowing the next guy waiting up there to begin the approach is the most correct thing to do - however, it is not necessarily legal. The absolutely legal procedure would be to cancel by phone (assuming ATC cannot be communicated with on the ground - which is the case most of the time) on the ground.

Robert Eilers wrote:Miles - you are opening a whole need bag of worms regarding when to cancel IFR. In my opinion, when shooting the approach into an uncontrolled field when below the clouds and landing is assured canceling IFR and allowing the next guy waiting up there to begin the approach is the most correct thing to do - however, it is not necessarily legal. The absolutely legal procedure would be to cancel by phone (assuming ATC cannot be communicated with on the ground - which is the case most of the time) on the ground.

1. Landing is never assured...until you're tied down.

2. Cancelling IFR is legal anytime you can maintain VFR--legal cloud clearance and visibility requirements.

3. Personally I don't like cancelling in the air. There was a reason I was on an IFR flight plan. When I cancel I lose flight following and any emergency response that would come if I ended up short, or long for that matter (see number 1). I've flown approaches (a visual approach counts) into some really desolate places. If I had cancelled, and then crashed on the runway, I might still be there.

I'm not talking about the local airport right off the main road that is attended and has some civilization around, nor am I talking about practice approaches conducted in VMC on an IFR flight plan.

Speaking of communication..........it is all but impossible to contact FSS on the ground and then sometimes even when I get up in the air, there are times, I can't seem to get ahold of them to open a flight plan and by then cell phone is iffy at best.

Do you guys call and open your flight plan before start up?

I usually call on the radio and closeout my flight plan as soon as I have the airport in sight but now after reading Mike's post, I also land in some out of the way grass strips when no one is around. I'm thinking now that maybe it would be better to call and close out the flight plan after I get on the ground (and tied up ) and hope I don't forget to do so

W.

W.J.Langholz wrote:Speaking of communication..........it is all but impossible to contact FSS on the ground and then sometimes even when I get up in the air, there are times, I can't seem to get ahold of them to open a flight plan and by then cell phone is iffy at best....

I haven't had any trouble like that lately. Getting in contact with FSS in the air depends on where you are. There will be several frequencies you can use, some better than others. Of course you have to remember say on initial contact where you are and what frequency you're listening on, or they won't answer at all....

John

Minnesota has been great,the guys @ Princeton FSS are absolutely great. In fact I have had them answere when Huron FSS is suppose too.

You bet goes like this ....Huron Radio, Skyhawk 8354 bravo broadcasting on 122.35........ and wait for and answer. Not a radio issue, already checked that.

I did have and issue also going out of Columbus Ne. 2 weeks ago also. 20mins into the flight tried 3 different freq. and 2 different King 155 radios I finally got and answer.

Fort Dodge FSS in Iowa also has been great.

I just got to thinking what Mike said, man you pile it in on one of those grass strips I get to in SD and you have already canceled your flight plan, it may be a day or so before someone might notice. Next time I get out there I think I'll try 122.0 and see if any of those boys pick me up for a pirep.

W.

See my thread here on FSS: http://www.cessna170.org/forums/viewtop ... f=5&t=6470

122.0 is Flight Watch, which reading your post again, I think that's probably what you meant. Anyway, Flight Watch (officially, EnRoute Flight Advisory Service-EFAS) is located with an FSS, but not all FSS have an EFAS, and there are more FSS RCOs than EFAS RCOs, if that makes sense. So if you cannot contact Flight Watch on 122.0, you will probably have better luck trying to contact the FSS on one of their dedicated frequencies.

Also, 122.0 is not used for opening or closing flight plans.